Go to the Egyptian Dreams shop
Egyptian Dreams
Ancient Egypt Discussion Board
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

rome or egypt
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> General Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahhhh, yes, I got my Stargate fix for the night. A terrific epsiode, and next Friday they're going to show six of the favorites. I guess I missed that poll. I'm also becoming a fan of the Stargate: Disney Land spinoff. They're doing some terrific stuff with that show. Right now I'm getting my other weekly fix: Monk. I'll be back in a while. Very Happy
_________________


Visit my blog!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
ben41193
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 18
Location: ohio

PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
Sorry Ben but I couldn't disagree with you more:

Engineering feats: Pyramids, large temples, dug canals, created irrigation systems to use the floodwaters of the nile more effectively, etc.

Astronomy: They were familiar with the movements of the star Sirius and it seems clear that some of the planning of their buildings was based on astronomical measurements, there is an inscription of a Zodiak in the temple of Dendera which shows they had extensive knowledge of the night sky, etc.

You really should read up a bit more before you jump to all these conclusions Wink Just because you have not found the info doesn't mean it's not there.

Besides, why the insistance on being so negative? Why don't you focus on what you love so much, and do it without putting down another culture? I don't see why you have to keep making these negative remarks about egypt? Can't you enjoy the splendor that was Rome without maligning another culture? It seems that it would be way more fun to think about what the Romans did well, then on what you think the Egyptians did poorly.

I have never said egypt wasnet a good socity the egyptons were great but the things they did are nowhere near as agood as things that rome did. Im sry if i sound like im saying egypt is a bad scocitiy i dont think that at all. This is actualy like comparing a little leage player to arod its not fair.
I admitted they were good engineers but notas good as the romans were by far.
In the desert any thing u lay down has a 30 to 50 percent chance of lining up with some sort of astronomical figure. And so what if they knew aabout the night sky they sure didnt use it. There was one a roman who using the night sky somhhow calulated te earths circumfrinse and did it only n a few minnutes and was acurate withhen 800 miles
_________________
NOLIGE IS LONG AND LIFE IS SHORT
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
ben41193
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 18
Location: ohio

PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmt_sesh wrote:


Just remember, ben, that Egypt far predates Rome. Through almost all of Egyptian history the Roman Empire had not yet even existed. True, the Romans were more technologically advanced than the Egyptians, but they came along a lot later. More to the point, the Romans were much they took much of their technology and culture from the Greeks and Etruscans and others.


I :

Rome toook things from other cultures yes bt they made them better. Ialso beleqve your mistaking rome did first use the arch
_________________
NOLIGE IS LONG AND LIFE IS SHORT
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Rome toook things from other cultures yes bt they made them better. Ialso beleqve your mistaking rome did first use the arch


Sorry to say, but I'm not mistaken. I would not have written something like this were I not at least reasonably certain. This form of architecture is well attested in ancient Egypt. For instance, arches and barrel-vaults date all the way back to Dynasty 3, which lasted approximately from 2686 to 2613 BCE. The true beginnings of Rome, I believe, date to the mid-eighth century BCE, or about 750 BCE. Do the math: the ancient Egyptians were building arches in their tomb and temple architecture at least some 1800 years before Rome had its beginnings, and over 2000 years before Rome even became a republic (510 BCE).

No one's faulting you for your love of Rome, and personally I find it admirable. You said early on in this thread that you're only 12 years old, and I must compliment you for taking an interest in an ancient civilization at so young an age. I wish more young people were like you!

I can't speak for the others in this discussion, but you've done nothing to offend or anger me. You're just stating your beliefs, and that's good. I've also seen nothing in your writing to suggest an insult on your part of ancient Egypt, so don't worry about that. But do remember that this board exists primarily for the discussion of ancient Egypt and is populated by die-hard Egyptophiles such as I, so you can bet we're going to come to the defense of the Two Lands when we see a challenge. Very Happy

Rome was a great civilization and I can't see any logical person even trying to deny it. Rome accomplished great things, and had the dark ages not descended upon the West after the collapse of the Roman Empire, who knows how much more advanced we may have become by now were its many advances and inventions not lost to ignorance? One of the greatest of all Romans in my opinion was Galen, perhaps the single-most brilliant physician of ancient times. He alone was remarkable.

But Rome came to be because of the civilizations that preceded it, plain and simple. Rome built upon what came before. Egypt came long, long before. Yes, Rome was more advanced, but that's not even a fair comparison. It would be like saying the United States is greater than the Aztec empire. Of course people living in the Unites States would say that, but were you alive and living back among the Aztecs, there was no civilization in the entire Western Hemisphere at that time to rival it. The same is basically true for Egypt and Rome. Wink
_________________


Visit my blog!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
anneke
Queen of Egypt
Queen of Egypt


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 9305

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
There was one a roman who using the night sky somhhow calulated te earths circumfrinse and did it only n a few minnutes and was acurate withhen 800 miles

That was Erastosthenes of Cyrene (276 - 194 BC) and he was a North African (Libyan) scientist living in Alexandria Egypt. Cyrene didn't become a Roman colony until 74 BC, so this great scientist was definitely not Roman.
He was known for measuring the circumference of the earth. He did this by comparing the noon shadow at midsummer between Syene (now Aswan on the Nile in Egypt) and Alexandria.

Don't forget that Alexandria, Egypt, was the center of Science in those days. People from all over the Mediterranean area flocked to this city.

He is also known for inventing Erastosthenes Sieve, which is a method for creating a list of prime numbers.

I think you are still hugely underestimating what happened in Egypt. Finds do show that there is a long history of wisdom texts which were used in schools.

The Rhind and Moscow papyri show the knowledge the Egyptians had of mathematics. It is true that what they practiced was of a more experimental form and mathematics was not put on firmer theoretical foundations until Euclid made his contributions. And I have to say that when we turn to ancient scholars in science, then we more often than not turn to the Greeks. (I'm a mathematician and I can't think of any contributions by the Romans to mathematics for instance - I don't count Roman numerals as real math.)

And kmt-sesh is right in pointing out that you are comparing apples and oranges Wink
Then again you said that yourself as well.

Quote:
In the desert any thing u lay down has a 30 to 50 percent chance of lining up with some sort of astronomical figure. And so what if they knew aabout the night sky they sure didnt use it.

Nope. There is clear evidence of stellar alignment in temples such as at Elephantine.
The rock-cut tomb of Ramses II was aligned so that on the longest day a ray of light exactly hits the statues in the back of the temple. Funny thing is that when the engineers a couple of decades ago moved the temple to higher ground, they did not manage that same feat Very Happy
There is a well documented ritual called "the stretching of the cord". This was part of the rites involved when laying foundations for a temple. The rites involved the careful orientation of the temple by astronomical observation and measurement. So they most definitely used their knowledge of the night skies.

And no I'm not upset with you for saying what you think Smile
I really would just like to look at what you do like so much about the Romans. You still haven't told us....
_________________
Math and Art: http://mathematicsaroundus.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Don't forget that Alexandria, Egypt, was the center of Science in those days. People from all over the Mediterranean area flocked to this city.


In my last post I mentioned the brilliant Roman physician called Galen. Oops, sorry, that's not the right Galen. Try this one. To be accurate he was actually a Greek man born in the Roman city-settlement of Pergamon (in modern Turkey, I think), but he spent nearly his entire life in the Roman world, treating Romans.

Galen learned much as a physician in the gladitorial school--there's nothing quite as educational as treating fresh, gaping, hemorrhaging wounds, right? Surprised

Well, he would never have been so effective a physician had he not spent his formative years studying in...you guessed it: Alexandria, Egypt. Not even Rome could produce an equal of enlightenment, study, and research as Alexandria. And this Egyptian city was the only place of note in the Classical world that permitted physicians such as Galen to study human corpses. It was forbidden elsewhere and physicians outside Egypt were reduced to studying animals, which in the end did not prove terribly effective. Galen himself would later suffer the same problems when he moved to Rome, and was no longer allowed access to human cadavers.

Quote:
I really would just like to look at what you do like so much about the Romans. You still haven't told us....


I'm with anneke on this, ben. Please, tell us what it is about Rome that fascinates you. Smile
_________________


Visit my blog!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Claire
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 213
Location: England

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smile I'm just wondering Ben, do you actually like ancient egypt!? It just seems like your a little obsessed with comaring it with Rome Smile by the way, i think its great your helping me represent us younger people!!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
ben41193
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 18
Location: ohio

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i know its filled with egypt fans but i like a challene and i know that if i had the time and didnt have to type i could convince every one of you.
I love anciant egypt how old are you clarie
_________________
NOLIGE IS LONG AND LIFE IS SHORT
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger
Claire
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 213
Location: England

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to admit i do love Ancient Rome so you don't have to convince me how great it is! By the way i'm a few years older than you i'm 15, while we're talking about this whatt got you interested in egypt and rome? I personally have no idea why i love ancient egypt so much i have done ever since i can remember!! Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
Chrismackint
Account Suspended


Joined: 25 Sep 2006
Posts: 809

PostPosted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol people can say Rome is as great as they want but they are forgetting Egypt was the first country in the world to achieve Empire, every other country just followed in Egypts wake/shadow.....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sirethar
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 52
Location: Turin ( Italy )

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm Italian....and i believe that Ancient Egypt is better.
If we discuss about military strenght, is okey about Rome.
but let's not forget that romans copied 90% from greek civilization....even their pantheon.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think we can say that one is "better" than the other. Both were so different and their heydays were even widely apart in time. It's true Rome assimilated cutlural aspects from many other societies--I'd argue nearly as much if not as much from the Estruscans--but the empire of Italia grew to be its own unique entity.

I'd say that a more interesting way to phrase it instead of "better" is, what makes you as an individual prefer Egypt to Rome or Rome to Egypt?

Smile
_________________


Visit my blog!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
isisinacrisis
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 2228
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't even know if Ben is still roaming this board these days...

Quote:
The rock-cut tomb of Ramses II was aligned so that on the longest day a ray of light exactly hits the statues in the back of the temple. Funny thing is that when the engineers a couple of decades ago moved the temple to higher ground, they did not manage that same feat


Is this referring to Abu Simbel? I thought AS wasn't Ramses' tomb, just one of his more spectacular 'I'm the best, I totally pwn Egypt' temples that he erected throughout Egypt-and this 'ray of light' thing, I think it refers to the sun lighting up the temples, but not on the longest day, but on Feb and Oct 20/22? Unless Ramses had another solar-aligned monument which was his tomb?

And I've not heard of the Egyptians inventing the arch either-and certainly not that far back in Egyptian history. I've seen references to Egyptian arches but I thought those were Roman influenced.
_________________
High-Priestess of Isis, Hereditary Princess, Lady of Philae, Favourite of Osiris, the Lord of Abydos, Daughter of Horus, Chantress of Bastet, Superior of the Kitty Litter Wink
<---Check out my av-I made it myself Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, that's Abu Simbel--a temple, not a tomb. The Egyptians were building arches long before the Romans ever existed. I believe the oldest mudbrick arches date back to early Old Kingdom. I believe many of those magazines (storage vaults) at the mortuary temples on the Theban West Bank also had arched, vaulted roofs. That's New Kingdom, but still considerably before the founding of Rome.

I'm not terribly interested in Rome myself, though I did enjoy working the Pompeii exhibit we had at the Field last year. Rome was a magnificant empire, no doubting it.

And I'm now working my way through the DVDs for HBO's miniseries Rome. My cable package doesn't include HBO so I'm renting the disks through Netflix. I honestly have to say that Rome is far and away the best miniseries I've ever seen. I'm so hooked.

Very Happy
_________________


Visit my blog!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
isisinacrisis
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 2228
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rome (the series) is really good isn't it? Have you reached the bit about Cleopatra yet? The way they depict her is so different to the usual depictions of Cleo in other films, it's really strange actually. There's even one scene where she appears to be smoking a pipe Shocked but I don't get it-I thought they didn't smoke tobacco back then (tobacco mummies not withstandting) unless it was opium or something?
_________________
High-Priestess of Isis, Hereditary Princess, Lady of Philae, Favourite of Osiris, the Lord of Abydos, Daughter of Horus, Chantress of Bastet, Superior of the Kitty Litter Wink
<---Check out my av-I made it myself Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> General Discussion All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Page 6 of 8

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group