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Was Ay Nefertiti's father?

 
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Claire
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 5:47 pm    Post subject: Was Ay Nefertiti's father? Reply with quote

In one book i read ' The search for Nefertiti' there was a suggestion that Nefertiti's father could have possibly been Ay and that her mother may have died in childbirth and that Ay later remarried. But what about tutankhamuns death and his grandaughter ankhesenamun's mysterious disappearance after he came to the throne???
Can anyone help?? Very Happy
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We basically do not know who the parents of Nefertiti were.

The identification of Aye as Nefertiti's father is based on his title God's Father (It Netjer in Egyptian).
The argument is that Yuya was the father of the previous Queen (Queen Tiye) and he held this title thereby suggesting that God's father may have meant Pharaoh's father-in-Law.

The problem with the theory is that there are quite a few men who hold that title. For instance the Vizier Aperia also held the title of God's Father. So is he the father of a Queen as well?

Furtermore, it is clear from inscriptions that Aye's wife was the wet-nurse and later tutor of Queen Nefertiti. She is never said to be her mother. This is why some people then theorize that Nefertiti was Aye's daughter by his first (unidentified wife).

We do know for sure that Nefertiti had a sister. Her name seems hard to read and is sometimes given as Mutnodjemet and sometimes as Mutbenret. This girl is shown at court at Amarna and is clearly labeled as the Queen's Sister. The problem is that her parents are never given eitehr Smile She is depicted in Aye's tomb in Amarna, but she is also depicted in several other tombs.

So unless we find some new evidence, the honest answer is that no one knows who her parents are Very Happy

It is kind of peculiar I think that Akhenaten never married any of his sisters as was the custom for the king in those days. He had several sisters: Sitamen, Isis, Henuttaneb, Nebetiah and Beketaten.
Sitamen and Isis were elevated to the position of Great Royal Wife (Queen basically) by their father which seems to indicate that they married their father instead of their brother.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
We basically do not know who the parents of Nefertiti were.


I should think this answer is even more elusive than the parentage of King Tut. You're right, not enough evidence exists to establish very credible theories. The argument about Yuya's use of this title suggests how murky royal titles could be. Are they to be taken literally or honorifically? And with someone like Ay, a commoner by birth, perhaps figuring out such a way to attach such a prestigious title to himself, aided in his legitimacy to take the throne after the death of Tut.

Quote:
Sitamen and Isis were elevated to the position of Great Royal Wife (Queen basically) by their father which seems to indicate that they married their father instead of their brother.


Can you blame them? I mean, this was their very odd brother Amunhotep IV we're talking about.

Sorry, couldn't resist. Very Happy
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Rozette
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote :Sitamen en isis were elevated to the position of great Royal Wife (Queen basically) by their father which seems to indicate that they married their father instead of their brother.
Only speculation of myself .
The coregency was maybe the reason why they were married to their father and not to their brother. If the two Kings have a joint reign and the sisters were married to their father and become in the position of great Royal wife. Then, I think that they were not in the position to be married to their brother at the same moment.
In the Amarna tombs there is only one sister of Akhenaten mentioned and that is Baketaten. Where were the other sisters ? Are they dead at the moment. I find it very strange that Nefertiti becomes so powerful at the beginning of the reign of Akhenaten, because she was not a royal daughter like the sisters of Akhenaten .
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rozette wrote:
I find it very strange that Nefertiti becomes so powerful at the beginning of the reign of Akhenaten, because she was not a royal daughter like the sisters of Akhenaten .


I think there are some very early depictions that do not include Nefertiti, but by the time the temples at Karnak were being built she was very prominently present. I wonder if part of the importance that was given to her was because she played the role of Tefnut in the Aten-Shu-Tefnut triad?

The book by N de Garies Davis gave a theory that must have been around in the early 1900's that I had never heard of:
Some apparently identified Queen Tiye with Tey, wife of Aye.
The theory being that after the death of Amenhotep III, the widowed queen married Aye. Her title of wet-nurse was a way to de-emphasize the fact that she had been Queen of egypt and had in effect stepped down to the role of noble woman.
The idea is then that Nefertiti was one of her daughters under another name.

Problem with this theory is that it's unlikely that Tiye would have married a noble after being Queen. Tiye seems to have visited Amarna as Dowager Queen.

Nefertiti never claimed to be a King's Daughter or a King's Sister, and usually royals would reinforce thier connections to the "clan".

I have seen it mentioned by the way that Ankhesenamen when she was Queen never used the title King's Daughter either. And she never claimed to be a King's Sister either. Which is strange considering that Tut is often thought to be her (half-)brother.

This could mean that neither Queen was directly related to their respective husband, or for some unknown reason, these titles were just not used during this time period.
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Rozette
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason why Queen Ankhesenamun never claimed to be a King's Daughter, was maybe because she was Akhenaten's and Nefertiti's daughter. After Tutankhamun and Ankhesenamun returned to the old religion it was maybe better not to mentioned it, because of political reasons .
I think it must be hard for Ankhesenamun , to betrayed the religion of her father.
And maybe she was not so loyal to Amun as we think, because there is evidence that Horemheb removed her name and makes alternations of some of her presentations.
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Rozette
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2005 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a book the Amarna Age , A Study Of The Crisis of the Ancient World by James Baikie. In this book they say that Nefertiti was a daughter of Tiyi and a full sister of Akhenaten. And the point is settled by an inscription quoted by Legrain. The book is a reprint of 1926 and I have never read this theory in another book. In the modern books about Akhenaten and Nefertiti they never mentioned these inscription.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The sarcophagus in the tomb of Tutankhamun.

The sarcophagus shares many features with those of Akhenaten , Ay and Horemheb, but there are also significant anomalies distinguishing it from them. The simple lid , of red granite and once tinted to match the colour of the quarzite box, was originally not planned for it, but fitted neatly; it has a repaired transverse break through the middle.
Its form and figural decoration is documented first for a royal sarcophagus during Akhenaton's reign. The boxes of Tutankhamun, Ay and Horemheb are identical in form, each lid is unique. All four boxes , including Akhenaten's ,incorporate in its decoration four female figures with oustretched arms in a very high relief, at the corners.
The decorations and texts reveal indisputable evidence of alternation, among which the wings of the four goddesses not being original is the most striking. This necessitated the recarving of the vertical inscriptions, which in the original state were considerably more than in its present, altered and even now unfinshed state.
The author Eaton-Krauss M. ,argues that it is more likeky that the sarcophagus was appropiated for someone else and adapted for use by Tutankhamun, as was also the case with his tomb.
A number of alternatives are revieuwed, redecoration to the name change from Tutankhaten to Tutankhamun at some time in his reign,but Smenkhkare is the best candidate. Because in KV 55 no sarcophagus was found.
Does anyone have more information about Tutankhamuns sarcophagus.
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