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Queen Tanedjemet
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anneke
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:04 pm    Post subject: Queen Tanedjemet Reply with quote

In the Valley of the Queens, tomb 33 belongs to Queen Tanedjemet.
She's thought to be the wife of Pharaoh Seti I.

Have any of you heard about this queen?

I believe that "Ta" means daughter of. If she's the daughter of Nedjemet (or Nodjemet), could this be a daughter of Mutnodjemet and be the link between Amarna and the next dynasty?
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anneke
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just realized that German and Dutch sites list her as a Queen from the 19th dynasty, while some American(?) sites put her in the 20th dynasty.
In English her name is given as Tanezem(t).

Still leaves the question: Anyone know about her?
Is it possible she's Mutnodjemet's daughter. (Would be extremely interesting and cool Cool )
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2004 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tanedjemet is listed as King's Daughter and King's Wife, and as Queen of Upper and Lower Egypt. (This info comes from the German websites.)

Kent Weeks has her listed as a Princess on his website.

It is known that Seti I was married to Queen (Mut-) Tuya.
She was the mother of Ramses II
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Sesen
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today I came across what could be part of the meaning of the name Tanedjemet and it reminded me of this topic. You may have already found it by now but...
Mutnodjemet means 'sweet one of Mut' so Tanedjemet would therefore mean 'sweet one of...whatever Ta' may mean.
I've never come across any more information on this lady than what you already have - she's quite a dark horse!
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mentioned this in another thread, but Horemheb's Queen Mutnodjmet died.
He must have taken another Queen after her.

There are several more burials of Queens in the Valley of the Queens that can not be attributed to any individual.

One thing to argue against Tanedjemet being a very early Queen is that (for as far as we know) Ramses seems to be the first King to bury his wife in the Valley of the Queens.

For as far as the menaing of the name: Ta seems to mean daughter (As in Isis-Ta-Hamdjilat meaning Isis daughter of Hamdjilat - Queen of Ramses III), and Nodjmet means "sweet one"?

I have wondered if she is daughter of (Mut-)Nodjmet and is thus the King's daughter (Horemheb) and King's wife (Ramses I).

The Ramesside Kings considered Horemheb as their ancestor it seems. From Mutnodjmet's remains it seems that she had several children. If a daughter of theirs survived it would be rather surprising if she had not been given in marriage to Ramses I.

But this is one speculation heaped upon another Very Happy
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Sesen
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
From Mutnodjmet's remains it seems that she had several children. If a daughter of theirs survived it would be rather surprising if she had not been given in marriage to Ramses I.

Exactly. And no daughters (or children) have come to light yet. There was such a high mortality rate in children - and their mothers, that its likely to me that none actually survived.
Wink Although we know very little about the origins of Queen Mery-en-Mut Nerfertari. And NO, haha I'm not speculating on Nefertari being a descendant of Mutnodjemet - I'm sure there were quite a few 'Mut's about.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sesen wrote:

Exactly. And no daughters (or children) have come to light yet. There was such a high mortality rate in children - and their mothers, that its likely to me that none actually survived.
Wink Although we know very little about the origins of Queen Mery-en-Mut Nerfertari. And NO, haha I'm not speculating on Nefertari being a descendant of Mutnodjemet - I'm sure there were quite a few 'Mut's about.


Very Happy Well, if Nefertari was related to Aye (speculative, based on the object in her tomb) then it would have to be via Mutnodjemet wouldn't it?

That would also possibly make her doubly descendant from Aye AND Horemheb. Might explain her prominence at court.
She had an entire temple of Hathor dedicated to her, so she played an important religious role as well! Her dancing at the festifal of Min is another indication of that
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Sesen
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Well, if Nefertari was related to Aye (speculative, based on the object in her tomb) then it would have to be via Mutnodjemet wouldn't it?

Very Happy yeah I was half thinking that. With the other half on the Nefertiti as Ay's daughter theory. Which I'm not a fan of now.
I don't think a descendant of the Amarna period would attain such an elevated position as Nefertari did.
How about Nefertari's relationship to Ay through the Yii you found, if he is the son of General Nakhtmin?
Quote:
Yii is the son of an official named Nakhtmin and his wife Mutemnebut


I'm sure she is related to Ay, to have something placed in your tomb must show it's significance to the deceased.
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Sesen
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meant to also make mention of another interesting name similar to Gilukhipa and Tadukhipa.
There was a Queen Pudukhepa wife of the Hittite king Hattusilis III. It was their daughter that was sent to Ramses II to seal the peace treaty. I wonder if Queen Pudukhepa was a Mittani sent to the Hittites, her name is quite unlike the male Hittite names.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
yeah I was half thinking that. With the other half on the Nefertiti as Ay's daughter theory. Which I'm not a fan of now.
I don't think a descendant of the Amarna period would attain such an elevated position as Nefertari did.
How about Nefertari's relationship to Ay through the Yii you found, if he is the son of General Nakhtmin?


I like that theory!
Then we have Ay-General Nakhtmin-Yii-Nefertari.
That's all possible. Yii was an official in a prominent position during Aye's reign, so Nefertari could have been his daughter and married Ramses.

If Mutemnebut=Mutnodjemet and if Mutnedjemet is the daughter of Anen (I know 2 big ifs) then we also have:
Anen-Mutnodjemet-Nefertari.

This would again put her in the priestly branch of the Akhmin family.
But if she's descendant via Yii, then that would do it too.

I'm afraid we'll never know.

So, you're doubting the Nefertiti as Aye's daughter theory too?
I've said before that I think she's Anen's daughter. What do you think? Another theory yet??
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hehe I feel my feet being sucked into the Amarna quicksand of theories! Laughing
Well...
We suspect the Ay jumps the queue ahead of Horemheb (as heir) and takes the throne. He's an old man - what male relatives might he have to make heir, to keep the kingship in his family? He has possibly a close family member (maybe a son- unknown) in General Nakhtmin. The country needs a strong leader, the Hittites are taking egyptian controlled lands in the Levant, the Nubians are always trouble, the countrys' still unsettled after the Amarn period. He has a daughter/niece, a heiress, suitable pedigree for Queen. The two are married. On the death of Ay, Horemheb returns from military duties to claim the throne and marry Mutnodjmet. General Nakhtmin, dead or displaced. Mutnodjmet marries Horemheb, 'makes obeisance to him, embraced his beauty, and placed herself before him'.
Horemheb is revered as a good king who returned the gods favour back to Egypt, the father of the Ramesside period, his tomb at Saqqara shows signs of this admiration. Ay's tomb is defiled, his image chisled out, his name removed. Horemheb dates his reign from the end of Amenhotep III.

I don't know that Nefertari's connection to Ay would be a particularily good thing in the court of Ramses II, even allowing for Ay's possessions in her tomb. Ramses states in his marriage inscriptions that his father chose beauties for his harem. She must have had some other suitable qualifications, not just a distant connection to a maligned king, however important he was to her personally. I would be looking for a possible mother - the key would be there I believe. Nefertari was an Hereditary Noblewoman - speculation has her as a Theban, must have been from a powerful family. Yii' family could fit the bill. His titles may place him in the Theban area.

Quote:
I've said before that I think she's Anen's daughter

I like your theory, its quite plausible, though it would hinge on at least her mother, dying young enough for Nefertiti to need a 'wet nurse'. This woman would be Yuy, Adoratrice of Min, songstress of Isis? I have no information on her at all.
I do tend to sit on the fence a bit when it comes to the Ay and Nefertiti as father/ daughter scenario. Sway from side to side on occasion. Your idea is as good as any - fits as well. Very Happy
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sesen wrote:
hehe I feel my feet being sucked into the Amarna quicksand of theories! Laughing


Someone on another message board referred to it as "The Amarna Tar pits".

And on another site I read something like (I have to paraphrase here)
"Never has so much been deduced from so little".
Laughing Sums it up nicely doesn't it
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Sesen
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"Never has so much been deduced from so little".

LOL! love that! So damn true too Very Happy
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah and even with the multitude of theories about Nefertiti there's a chance none of them is right. Although it seems at times that most scenarios have been covered.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a first! We're both here at the same time!
The thing I find with Nefertiti is that she is a fascinating character that we know virtually nothing about regarding her origins. It doesn't take long to start deducing......all the 'what if's' Very Happy
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