Go to the Egyptian Dreams shop
Egyptian Dreams
Ancient Egypt Discussion Board
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The three foreign wives of Thutmosis III
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Pharaohs and Queens
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Rozette
Vizier
Vizier


Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 1185
Location: Belguim

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:13 pm    Post subject: The three foreign wives of Thutmosis III Reply with quote

Has anyone more information about this three woman.

I know they bore the title of "Kings Wife".
They were treated as a group in the designation of their tomb , specific objects in the tomb indicate that they were gifts from the king to the three woman before Hatshepsut disappeared by year 22.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anneke
Queen of Egypt
Queen of Egypt


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 9305

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Their names were Menhet, Menwi and Merti.
They were probably daughters of Syrian chieftains from what I have read.

This site has some nice pictures of some of the items found in the tomb:
http://members.tripod.com/~ib205/tuth_3_princess.html

I like the head band with the gazelles (or deer) in place of the ureaus.

I think this may be one of the few burials of minor wives of a king that has been found.

I find it interesting that they were buried together. Does that mean they died around the same time? Or did they reopen the tomb everytime another lady died?
_________________
Math and Art: http://mathematicsaroundus.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rozette
Vizier
Vizier


Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 1185
Location: Belguim

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the information, Very Happy beautiful pictures.

I have ordered today at the bookshop 'De Standaard" the book of Christine Lilyquist about the tomb.

I know that the tomb lies in the Wady Gabbanat el-Qurud, "un wady extrêmement sauvage," that what I found in a French book in a very remote area.I don't know why they were buried together. I have the book within a month. Hopefully I can tell you more than.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rozette
Vizier
Vizier


Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 1185
Location: Belguim

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.insecula.com/us/salle/panorama_ME0000049412.html?qualite=3

http://www.insecula.com/us/salle/tabloid_MS00604.html

I did some research and I found these two site's with pictures of the jewels of these three minor wives of Thutmosis III.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Daniella
Priest
Priest


Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Posts: 803
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOW, those really are beautiful! Very Happy I especially like the sandals, they look like modern sandals (well except for the fact that they are made out of gold). The hinged braclets are really nice too, and the earrings, and the broad collars...........it's all wonderful!
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL I like that top link, though I think I need some practice with navigating the image--if I'm not careful it zooms by in a blur. However, I liked those finger and toe stalls on the flat-panel display. Below them are sandals. There are some fantastic artifacts in those images.
_________________


Visit my blog!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
This site has some nice pictures of some of the items found in the tomb


Another nice site, anneke. The piece that caught my attention on that page was the bracelet with the cats on it. I wonder if this was some sort of Bastet charm? I also noticed the "melon" beads that form the rest of the bracelet. They're very similar to the types of beads used by many Native Americans in their jewelry, and the bone-carved beads used in their chokers.

Then there's this fabulous headdress or wig piece or...whatever it might be called. Shocked I wonder how it was made? It almost looks like dozens of little gold disks, but on closer inspection I'm guessing very thinly beaten, shaped gold.
_________________


Visit my blog!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Daniella
Priest
Priest


Joined: 23 Mar 2005
Posts: 803
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
They're very similar to the types of beads used by many Native Americans in their jewelry, and the bone-carved beads used in their chokers.

That's excactly what I thought when I saw that piece. I have a few Native American chokers, they're quite lovely.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anneke
Queen of Egypt
Queen of Egypt


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 9305

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmt_sesh wrote:
Another nice site, anneke.

Yes I enjoy that site as well. Well researched, and it has nice illustrations.

kmt_sesh wrote:
The piece that caught my attention on that page was the bracelet with the cats on it. I wonder if this was some sort of Bastet charm?

For some reason, that image is not visible anymore...


kmt_sesh wrote:
Then there's this fabulous headdress or wig piece or...whatever it might be called. Shocked I wonder how it was made? It almost looks like dozens of little gold disks, but on closer inspection I'm guessing very thinly beaten, shaped gold.

I have a book by Aldred [i]Jewels of the Pharaohs[i], and it has a full page picture (color) of that "headgear" as he calls it.
It is made out of gold and inlaid with turquoise, cornelian and colored frit (the latter has now disintegrated). On the photograph you see remnants of red and blue color decorating the piece.
It is now in the MET in New York.

In the book Aldred says that this kind of headdress developed from an earlier style of hairdecoration where rosettes were sown or otherwise attached to the hair.

Originally the rosettes were inlaid with blue and greenfrit (I also see some traces of red). Aldred mentions that this must have been quite a spectacular head dress when it was just made. It would have been quite colorful and the gold would have reflected the sun.

It was also quite heavy. Even now it weighs more than 2 pounds, and with all the original inlay it may have weighed twice as much!

There are some other pieces in the book as well, and Aldred mentions that some of the items show signs of wear ans tear. So these were not just part of the funerary equipment. These women would have worn at least some of these pieces in real life.

My book also mentions the headband on the top-right of the page. It is made out of gold and inlaid with cornelian and blue and green frit.
Aldred mentions that the diadem is put together in a T-shape. Apparently the ends of the diadem at the back of the head are shaped like a panther. (I.e. it does not form a full circle all the way around the back of the head.)
These panthers held a ring in their mouth to which a ribbon could be laced which would then secure the diadem.

I found it interesting that the gazelle heads on the front can be detached!
They are made seperately and are attached to small gold rods.
Made me wonder if the piece was made with an eye towards elevation to higher rank? Replace the gazelle with a uraeus some day? Or if they may have just had other non royal animals they could attach to the front of the diadem?
_________________
Math and Art: http://mathematicsaroundus.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rozette
Vizier
Vizier


Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 1185
Location: Belguim

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
I do find it interesting that Anuket has the gazelle as her personal animal, and there are depictions of Nefertiti's daughter Neferneferuaten-Tasherit with a gazelle.


anneke,

This is what I found about the gazelle headdress.
I also remenber me that you mentioned earlier that a daughter of Nefertiti was depicted with a gazelle. I think that this had a ritual meaning.I don't think that it was her cuddly toy.What do you think of it Anneke.

In general the animal appears widely on Egyptian monuments and must have had a spiritual meaning since early times (Bunner -Truut 1977 -Houlihan 1996).
This significance eventually broadened to form associations with deities such as Hathor, ANUKET, Isis, Horus the Child, Min, Shed and Bes
(Quaegebeur 1999).

The gazelle , is rarely used as an amulet or body ornament, and it is a Hyksos period diadem reportedly from the Eastern Delta that shows the heads of four gazelles on a jewel for the first time. (Fisher 1969, Aldred 1971, Müller and Thiem 1998 and Quaegebeur 1999).

You can find a picture of this diadem in your C. Aldred book by colour plates nr 48.

It does appear that the gazelle had a connection to Hathor in the 18th dynasty (Friedman1999) and Hathor -as daughter of RA and personification of sexual vitality and rejuvenation.

Gazelle wands were already represented in rejuvenation dances in the Old Kingdom (Troy 1986), and in the New Kingdom are represented at the Hathor - centered jubilee of Amenhotep III (Wente 1969) .
They also appear in the festival hall of Osorkon II at Bubastis
Further, gazelles are drawn on Dynasty 18 faience bowls that (Pinch) connects to Hathor.

New Kingdom women associated with the royal harem wore gazelle diadems, and it can be proposed that there was a reference to Hathor in the diadems.
Post-dating the Hyksos period diadem and the Wady Qurud gazelle diadem are representations of gazelle diadems for women in the reigns of Amenhotep III and Ramses II.

Book C. Aldred Menna's daughters wall-painting , the first two holding Hathor faced sistra wearing a headdress composed of a fillet, gazelle,plumes and modius ; colour plates nr 47
I hope I don't bore you with this explanation
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As you mentioned, Rozette, the gazelle was associated with both Isis and Hathor, and it also was the emblem of the 16th Nome in Upper Egypt. It was also closely associated with a goddess of Elephantine named Satet, who wore a headdress formed of the Upper Egypt crown and gazelle antlers. This was the goddess who was responsible for the first cataract of the Nile.

As we've seen with anneke's web link, the gazelle was a common ornament on the crowns of lesser royal wives; it's seen in numerous Theban tomb paintings dating to Dynasty 18.

Oddly enough, the desert nature of the gazelle (of which Egypt has three different species) led to a connection with the desert god Set. In later periods, consequently, the gazelle is sometimes depicted as the prey of Horus.

Gazelles were favorite pets of the nobles and royals, and by the Late Period they were one of the animals mummified in considerable numbers, in this instance as offerings to either Hathor or Isis. We have one such gazelle mummy in our exhibit at the Field--it was a very young animal and its immature antlers poke out of the wrappings at the back of the head.
_________________


Visit my blog!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Rozette
Vizier
Vizier


Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 1185
Location: Belguim

PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the information ktm_sesh Smile

I didn't know that the Ancient Egyptians in the Late Period mummified gazelles. I know that they mummified lots of other animals , but I have never read about gazelles mummified.

I think it must be fun working in a museum like the Field.
A good friend of my, his daugther has worked during an excavation in Egypt, they excavated there the Roman Temple of Isis and Mut at Shenhur midway between Thebes and Coptos.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I have never read about gazelles mummified.


Yeah, the Field is a wonderful place. It is a great honor and privilege to be associated with it.

As for our animal mummies, we also have the usual large assortment of falcons and cats, plus a couple of vultures, a goose, a baby crocodile, a baboon reliquary containing the bones of the animal (I almost typed "baboob"-- where is my mind today! Surprised ), and a couple of scarab beetles. There are more animal mummies in our storage areas and of course I've never personally seen them, though they were recently X-rayed and one of the kitty mummies was found to be a fake.

Quote:
A good friend of my, his daugther has worked during an excavation in Egypt, they excavated there the Roman Temple of Isis and Mut at Shenhur midway between Thebes and Coptos.


What a thrill! Goodness, I would love to take part in a dig in Egypt. Was she there in the summer? I understand a lot of the digging takes place then, so I fear were I even to give it a go, I would drop dead from heat stroke a few seconds after getting out of the plane. Extreme heat and I don't play well together. Surprised (It's been terrifically hot in Chicago this summer and I can't stand it!)

Is this the Shenhur that's north of Thebes, near the modern settlement of Naqada? I've seen it on maps but don't know anything about that particular location. Did your friend find anything of interest?
_________________


Visit my blog!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Rozette
Vizier
Vizier


Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 1185
Location: Belguim

PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote ktm-sesh :
I would love to take part in a dig in egypt

On this site you will find a lot of information about the temple of Shenhur.
You will find also the exact location of the temple.

http://millennium.arts.kuleuven.ac.be/shenhur/The_Shenhur_Page.htm

The daughter of my friend was there with the" 2001 Campaign from 18 March - 3 May". The weather conditions were good , it was there warm, but not the extreme heat like in the summer months.
She was one of the people who was responsible for the pottery. All the fragments of the pottery they found there were of interest for them. Because every little fragment had his own story. During the excavation there , she was still a student at the VUB = Free University Brussels.
Egypt was the third excavation that she did, earlier she did two excavations in Jordany.

We have a bad summer here in Belgium , the last weeks it rains every day. Mad
I mentioned it to my husband and daughter that you say that it is very warm in Chicago, and we love to change with you. Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anneke
Queen of Egypt
Queen of Egypt


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 9305

PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did find roughly the same info about the gazelle. I just noticed that the daughters of Menna, who were wives of Amenhotep III, also wore diadems with a gazelle.

I have seen the gazelle mainly associated with Anuqet. She was an old kingdom godess associated with the Aswan area. She was a goddess of fertility and sometimes thought to be the daughter of Ra.
I wonder if Hathor absorbed some of her aspects (including the gazelle).
It does make some sense to show ladies of the royal harem with an emblem of fertility.

On touregypt they have this quote:

There is an ostracon on which she [i.e. Anuqet] is depicted in the form of a gazelle and called 'Lady of Heaven' and 'Mistress of the Gods'.


Quote:
I mentioned it to my husband and daughter that you say that it is very warm in Chicago, and we love to change with you.

LOL If it's anything like it is here in St Louis, then you really don't want to trade. It's often above 35C and VERY humid. Yuck!
Friday it was closer to 40C. Everytime you walk outside it feels like you get whacked in the head with a wet steamy hot towel....

Not to mention the lovely storms these weather patterns create. We just had a huge storm yesterday. It was raining so bad that I couldn't even see the street from the window in the front of the house. There are trees down everywhere and a couple of streets down from us the electricity went out for an entire neighborhood.
_________________
Math and Art: http://mathematicsaroundus.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Pharaohs and Queens All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group