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Are they the same?????
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VBadJuJu
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The manifestation of God/gods as a trinity is one of the fundamental similarities as well.
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that's a good point. Ancient Egypt had numerous divine trinities. This might make for a good post all its own: comparing and contrasting ancient Egypt and Judeo-Christianity.
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maahes
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Copticism a precept of life is analagous with Aten hued Amenism- namely tht without life there can be no death which in my mind seems logically evolved from the precept that without light there can be no darkness
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
tht without life there can be no death which in my mind seems logically evolved from the precept that without light there can be no darkness


Part of that whole Eastern philosophy Ying-Yang thing. Life/death, light/dark, day/night, good/evil, man/woman, cheeseburger/salad...

That was a big part of Egyptian religion, too (Ying-Yang, not cheeseburger/salad). The ancients were very much concerned with the balance of things, and to have one you must have the other.
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isisinacrisis
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

huh? I have never heard of Egyptians having Yin-Yang??? Please explain?

Also, can someone explain the similarities between Genesis and the Egyptian creation myth? I don't see any mentionings of deities of air, sky, earth etc in the bible. Is there a similarity with 'in the beginning there was the word', does that have an Egyptian counterpart?
I dunno if I see any similarities...although I am a BIG believer in the idea that Egyptian myth influenced Christianity. Osiris-resurection, Isis-Mary, the trinity and all that. (Is the trinity of Isis-Osiris-Horus the only triad in ancient Egypt, or are there more?)

I did remember seeing this programme on TV about Akhenaten and the copper scroll and it mentioned in passing that the story about baby Moses floating on a basket in the reeds may come from an Isis-Horus myth. And also, that psalm that comes from Akhenaten's hymn.

Ok, so we've listed the obvious similarities-resurrection, madonna and child, Atenism/monotheism, but does anyone know of any other similarities with ancient Egypt and the Bible? Is it true that, apart from the Aten hymn/psalm, there are other biblical passages lifted from Egyptian texts? I'm fascinated by this stuff you see, and I'd like to compile a little list of comparisons eventually.
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VBadJuJu
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isisinacrisis wrote:
Also, can someone explain the similarities between Genesis and the Egyptian creation myth? I don't see any mentionings of deities of air, sky, earth etc in the bible.


They both start with a void or chaos into which comes either light as in the Bibile or a sun god as in AE; the others follow in similar fashion to make the place habitable until a god makes man. Then god smites man (the flood / Sekhmet); and a bad guy comes to set the second pole of morality (Lucifer / Set).

isisinacrisis wrote:
(Is the trinity of Isis-Osiris-Horus the only triad in ancient Egypt, or are there more?)


Just about all of them appear in triads, mostly in familial terms

isisinacrisis wrote:
that psalm that comes from Akhenaten's hymn.


There are some similarities with Psalm 104, but there are also similarities between Akhenaten's Hymn (lol) and the Litany of Re and a hymn or soemthing to Amun. It wasnt that original.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are some major similarities between the Ancient Egyptian story of creation and that in Genesis as well.[/quote]

there are actually three creation myths that are acknowledged by egyptologists, helipolotian theory, memphite thoery and i think the other is in connection with Atum...


regarding the origin of Akhenatens religious beliefs, it has been put forward that his father Amenhotep III was strongly into sun worship, in fact the collossi of memnon on the west bank in luxor are seen as a key feature in this argument, not only were they placed, as part of a temple, facing the rising sun, but they were constructed from extremely hard to get (at the time) stone that looked like gold when the suns rays hit it. It has been proposed that this was a direct homage to the sun, and of course the pharaohs physical manifestation of the god, in this case the sun god. This is only one small piece of evidence in teh argument of course....
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maahes
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually the duality issue represented in Buddhism points out that anthing purely dualistic is in itself incomplete. But darkness was not equal or opposite of light- it existed because of light not the other way around.
Its a slight shift in phi;losophy but an integral one.
Akhenaten was not worshiping the sun or the the sun's physical vehicle the aten disc. Nor was he worshipping the amduat. His discourse is analagous to some degree with genesis but it is also comparable to photosynthesis. It really depends what the light ( thought) is projected upon that determines the shape of its shadow.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
huh? I have never heard of Egyptians having Yin-Yang??? Please explain?


LOL That was my fault, I'm afraid. No, the Egyptians had no such Ying-Yang expression, but I was using it as an anology to the definite ancient Egyptian concept of balance and order. "Ying-Yang" itself may be an Eastern notion, but the same idea existed and exists in many cultures.

Quote:
Is there a similarity with 'in the beginning there was the word', does that have an Egyptian counterpart?


I'm afraid I'm going to have to be pretty sketchy on this one, but in the past I've read translations of ancient Egyptian texts that had similar-sounding wording. I don't remember it well at all, though.

Some of the other posters answered the "Genesis question" pretty well, and cleo touched on some of the creation mysths of ancient Egypt. There are numerous such myths because ancient Egypt as a nation was born from different regional tribal "provinces," and most of these predynastic areas embraced their own deities and myths.

It can be confusing for many people trying to make sense of ancient Egyptian religion and creation stories, but then again, the Bible itself (and especially the Pentateuch) can be pretty confusing and contradictory. Why? Because in this respect ancient Israel is somewhat similar to ancient Egypt, albeit in a scaled-down version. The Old Testament is a collection of various myths, fables, and laws from two ancient Judaic kingdoms (Israel and Judah), and all of this jumbled literature comes together today in the modern anthology we call the Bible.

It's good to hear from you again, isisinacrisis. Haven't seen you in a while. Very Happy
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kaiburr
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 5:18 am    Post subject: seven plagues Reply with quote

the purpose of the seven plagues upon egypt written in the bible, is to show supremity of the christian God over the egyptian gods. with each plague God supposedly denied several egyptian gods, darkness denying the sun god etc..
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 2:12 pm    Post subject: Re: seven plagues Reply with quote

kaiburr wrote:
the purpose of the seven plagues upon egypt written in the bible, is to show supremity of the christian God over the egyptian gods.
That the Old Testament - Pre-Christian.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:44 am    Post subject: pre-christian Reply with quote

the term prechristian is debatable among christians. the existence of pre-christian is debatable
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most people in the region were Amenists. Many if not most became "Copt"
and these people were waiting for a mose jawha eg "messiah" long before the generation that gave us the prophets of Christ's age.
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VBadJuJu
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:24 am    Post subject: Re: pre-christian Reply with quote

kaiburr wrote:
the term prechristian is debatable among christians. the existence of pre-christian is debatable

Its pretty difficult to support that the purpose of the story if the plagues in the Hebrew bible was in anticipation of a messiah-savior they would ultimately not follow or believe in.

YMMV
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Put. It also defies logic and the spirit of religious text to consistently and intentionally mistranslate "sea of green reeds" for Red Sea.
If the Mose' took an ancient route into the sepat of the crocodile just prior to annunal inundation only a foreign idiot would follow given the long held understanding of local tribes that inundation season was a time to stay clear of the labyrinth. The green reed sea was the marsh jungle of Faiyoum not the Delta and certainly not the Red Sea.
So little faith in prophets revisionists oblige us to move apart like reeds before the prow of a barque.
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