Go to the Egyptian Dreams shop
Egyptian Dreams
Ancient Egypt Discussion Board
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Organising the Panthenon

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Mythology and Religion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Brunhilde
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 67
Location: Palatine,Il

PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:53 pm    Post subject: Organising the Panthenon Reply with quote

Ok, I'm fairly new to Egyptian mythology because it confuses me so much. I am a habitual list maker,and that helps remembering names but not much else.
It's not like Greek mythology where you can sit around making complex family trees. So I turn to my Norse method. Or Aesir, Vanir, Jotun.
Warrior gods on one side, fertility gods in between, non-gods Jotun.
Note that in Norse mythology that the warrior gods were worshipped by the class that could read & write so they are mentioned more often than the Vanir are. I wonder if it's different in Egypt...
Warning: comparisons are going to be made.I'll explain later.

Warrior
Sekhmet
Horus
Ra,Amon,whatever(Baldur is considered Aesir,ok?)
Isis(points to Frigg)
Set(Loki counts)
Thoth(non-poet Bragi)
Anubis(notices popularity, is he your Thor?)

Fertility
Min
Hathor(Freyja conterpart)
Osiris(Freyr except more imporant and less stuck up)
Hapy(Aegir)
Nun(Njord)

Jotun
Apep
Ammut(or whatever that monster that eats souls is)
Must be more..minds on blank

Are there any Egyptian heros? Like a Theseus or Perseus or Hercules? Of course I don't expect to find anyone more beautiful than my darling Sigurd but I can try.
_________________
"Sigurd and I shall dwell in Hela,
and be remembered for ages,
ever and ever."~Valkryie Brunhilde.The Curse of Nibelungs,Andvari's Gold,the Ring etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
anneke
Queen of Egypt
Queen of Egypt


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 9305

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

War gods:
Monthu, Neith (?), Onuris.

Toth is the god of writing and knowledge, so I wouldn't put him under "War".
Anubis was the god of embalming.

Egyptian heros:
Not sure if Sinuhe counts?
Setne-Khaemwese is a hero from the later period but based of Prince Khaemwaset, the son of Ramses II.
_________________
Math and Art: http://mathematicsaroundus.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
xman
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 48
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 6:44 am    Post subject: Different Idea of Heroism? Reply with quote

Horus usually takes up the heroic figure, but the egyptians thought a little differently than most other people about their gods. Most cultures were forced (as we are today) to notice the hardships of life and nature. The Egyptian never knows rain, gets 3 harvests a year (talk about plenty!) and always had the celestial heavens and the gods which fill them in view.

There's one guy who stands out from history in Ancient Egypt and that's Imhotep. He was an architect (the first architect to build a pyramid) and priest/minister pharaoh Djoser (27th century BC). He was eventually elevated to the status of a god of wisdom, medicine and magic. As such his parents became the creator deity Ptah, the god of crafts and intellect, but he still had a human mother.

X
_________________
Always remember, it's your right to have a SUPER day.
If you're not, call me ... I'll have one for you!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Brunhilde
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 67
Location: Palatine,Il

PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the Egyotians aren't like the Greeks or Romans with their view on war. They are not offensive like the Germanic tribes were. Defensive perhaps?
_________________
"Sigurd and I shall dwell in Hela,
and be remembered for ages,
ever and ever."~Valkryie Brunhilde.The Curse of Nibelungs,Andvari's Gold,the Ring etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
VBadJuJu
Priest
Priest


Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Posts: 733

PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Nubians, Canaanites, Libyans and a whole lot of ancient Syrians would probably disagree.
_________________
Build a man a fire and he is warm for a day.
Set a man on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Brunhilde
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 67
Location: Palatine,Il

PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, yeah Thutmosis III & Ramses II were big warrior-pharaohs.

I mean the overall view. The Greeks prefered stradegy to fighting. Romans put more focus into physical aspect because they liked to win.(who doesn't). Norse viewed war as an honor, so much that anyone who died otherwise went to Niflheim instead of Vahalla.
What was the Egyptian mindset?
_________________
"Sigurd and I shall dwell in Hela,
and be remembered for ages,
ever and ever."~Valkryie Brunhilde.The Curse of Nibelungs,Andvari's Gold,the Ring etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
xman
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 48
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Seth is the god of Chaos and war. I think he's Osiris' nemesis, but I get the impression the Egyptians respected him. They did hunt gis likeness, that dog to extinction though.

X
_________________
Always remember, it's your right to have a SUPER day.
If you're not, call me ... I'll have one for you!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
isisinacrisis
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 2228
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think the Seth animal was a real animal...he was a mythical creature, an amalgamation of existing animals like the aardvark, the donkey, and others. Apparently this sort of animal has a name though-something that begins with 'sha', i think?

I don't think Seth was respected much in Egypt...more like feared, and must be appeased.

Were the Egyptians a particularly warlike, conquering culture? I know they had wars and probably conquered a few neighbouring countries, but they didn't do it on the scale of, say, the Romans. I don't think they were that warlike, myself.
_________________
High-Priestess of Isis, Hereditary Princess, Lady of Philae, Favourite of Osiris, the Lord of Abydos, Daughter of Horus, Chantress of Bastet, Superior of the Kitty Litter Wink
<---Check out my av-I made it myself Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
VBadJuJu
Priest
Priest


Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Posts: 733

PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isisinacrisis wrote:
Were the Egyptians a particularly warlike, conquering culture? I know they had wars and probably conquered a few neighbouring countries, but they didn't do it on the scale of, say, the Romans.

The problem with comparing AE with Greece or Rome is that it is apples and oranges. While they were all "a long time ago", AE was in its heyday in the Bronze Age, while Greece reached its zenith in the Iron Age (and Rome even later, obviously).

But the differences are not just in the weapons. It wasnt until the Late Middle/Early New Kingdom that the notion of a professional warrior class swept thru the lands. This came about as a result of new weapons that required specialized skills like the chariot and compound bow. No longer could Farmer Hotep be depended upon to drop his hoe and drive a chariot proficiently.

Interestingly, neither of these were invented by the AEs: The chariot came from the north and the bow from the Hyksos. The AEs were quick to adopt them, but they werent military inovators. Their power seems to have stemmed from the ability to put a LOT of men in the field and overwhelm their adversary.

As for midset, they dont seem too terribly expansionist until the New Kingdom. That seems driven in laege part in driving the Hysoss further and further back and then setting up a bigger and bigger 'buffer' of vassals. That said, they dont seem the least bit shy about going south and whaling on the Nubians - that goes back to the Old Kingdom. Have gold, will travel....

Later in the Iron Age, Greece had 2 things the AEs did not: The saddle and stronger weapons. Granted, he was a military leader the likes of which there is no comparison for in AE and scarcely one in Rome. However, with the saddle and bridle he could do things like organize a proper cavalry, expedite provisions, move faster and I think he even had a form of dragoon. This makes a big difference.

If you look at the compaigns of the Thutmosides, they did well against the small city-states but even T-III never managed to subdue the Mitanni which was a proper kingdom. The largest adversay seemst o have been the wresting the Amurru back from the Mitanni who had defected to them in the reign of Hatshepsut. Without the advantages of horses (oxen and mules just dont move as fast) in everything else he may have been up against, he would have had a long haul for provisions from home.
_________________
Build a man a fire and he is warm for a day.
Set a man on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Brunhilde
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 67
Location: Palatine,Il

PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The one thing I don't get is the connection between Archangel Michael slaying the dragon & Horus hurting Set.
I mean, Sigurd killed a dragon & I don't think the Norse,as much as I love them, ever came into direct contact with the Egyptians. Though some of there descendants did...

By "he" you mean Alexander the Great?"scarcely one in Rome" Julius Caesar was vini vili vici. Severus was good, oh and Trajan did wonders for the empires.

But let's get back on topic! Organising things.

Aker-Jotun Banebjedet-Aesir Hathor-Vanir Ihy-Aesir
Amaunet-Aesir Bastet-Vanir Hauhet-Vanir Imhotep-Aesir
Hapu's Son-Vanir Bat-Vanir Heket-Vanir* Ipet-Vanir
Anat-Aesir Benu-Aesir* Herishef-Vanir Kauket-Jotun?*
Anuket-Vanir Bes-Vanir* Horus-Aesir Khnum-Aesir
Aten-Vanir* Geb-Vanir* Hu-Aesir Khonsu-Aesir*
Baba-Jotun Hapy-Vanir Heh-Vanir Kuk-Aesir

Maat-Norns? Montu-Aesir* Nun-Vanir Renenuat-Vanir Tefnut-Vanir
Mafdet-Aesir Mut-Aesir Nut-Aesir Satis-Vanir
Mehen-Jotun Naunet-Vanir Onuris-Aesir Sekhmet-Jotun?
Mehet-Aesir Nefertem-Vanir* Osiris-Vanir Selket-Aesir
Mertseger-Aesir Neith-Aesir Pakhet-Jotun Seshat-Aesir
Meskhenet-Aesir Nekhbet-Aesir Ptah-Aesir Seth-Aesir
Mihos-Jotun Nethys-Aesir Re-Aesir Tawerat-Vanir

1*Atenism is liken to pacifism. 2*Reminds me of Baldur.3*Bragi god of poetry was Aesir.4*Earth deities are almost always automatically Vanir.5*Gullveig Heid. 6*Reminds me of Hela.7*Again Baldur.8*Tyr conterpart.9*Freyr conterpart.
_________________
"Sigurd and I shall dwell in Hela,
and be remembered for ages,
ever and ever."~Valkryie Brunhilde.The Curse of Nibelungs,Andvari's Gold,the Ring etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
xman
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 48
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brunhilde wrote:
vini vili vici.

Although it sure sounds fun to say it that way Laughing it's actually Veni Vidi Vici.

X
_________________
Always remember, it's your right to have a SUPER day.
If you're not, call me ... I'll have one for you!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
isisinacrisis
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 2228
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or, Veni Vidi Visa...I came, I saw, I spent. Wink

Quote:
The one thing I don't get is the connection between Archangel Michael slaying the dragon & Horus hurting Set.


Isn't that St George and the dragon? there is a discussion about this somewhere...I think there may be truth to this because apparently, some of the earliest imagery of St George slaying the dragon is Coptic-ie from Egyptian Christians. And it's possible they may have been inspired by the imagery of their ancestors? There is a Roman-Egyptian depiction of Horus dressed as a soldier/centurion slaying a crocodile, which would have been influenced by earlier images of Horus spearing the hippo or the child Horus standing on the head of a crocodile or tow. I could be wrong here, but it makes sense.
_________________
High-Priestess of Isis, Hereditary Princess, Lady of Philae, Favourite of Osiris, the Lord of Abydos, Daughter of Horus, Chantress of Bastet, Superior of the Kitty Litter Wink
<---Check out my av-I made it myself Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
VBadJuJu
Priest
Priest


Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Posts: 733

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brunhilde wrote:

By "he" you mean Alexander the Great?"scarcely one in Rome" Julius Caesar was vini vili vici.


Yes, Al. Caesar was a superb general but when it comes to accomplishments he couldnt really contend with Alex. By Caesar's time the entire Meditteranean was Rome's lake and the Ptolomeys were propped up by the backing of Rome.
_________________
Build a man a fire and he is warm for a day.
Set a man on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Brunhilde
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 67
Location: Palatine,Il

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand the concept of duality. It's like you can't chose between chocalate & vanilla ice cream so you take both.

The thing I saw right away though was the similarity of Set/Loki because both killed the popular guy. Though I can't find a trickster in the Egyptian panthenon.
_________________
"Sigurd and I shall dwell in Hela,
and be remembered for ages,
ever and ever."~Valkryie Brunhilde.The Curse of Nibelungs,Andvari's Gold,the Ring etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Mythology and Religion All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group