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King Tutankhamun's DNA

 
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Phephe
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:21 am    Post subject: King Tutankhamun's DNA Reply with quote

I am completely bewildered on the subject of the most recent, factual and accurate DNA about King Tutankhamun!
As soon as something is submitted into the press it seems to argued against and changed so regurlarly that I just can't keep up!
So I was hoping that some fo you on Egyptian Dreams would be able to understand what is accurate and true and what is not?

For starters! King Tutankhamun defanetly had a club foot and died of Malaria? Right? Well some believe that he died of a sickle cell?

His Mother and Father were full blood brother and sister right?

Now I'm kind of walking on thin ice when bringing up this certain topic, I just wish to know which is more accurate or if both are just dismissable!

In 2010 it was released that Tutankhamun was discovered to be 99.6 Western European! Ofcourse this stirred up a big contraversy. Though at the beginning of this year it is 'aparent' That Tutankhamun and his family were south African!

Site: http://www.arthurkemp.com/2010/05/king-tuts-dna-is-996-percent-match-with.html

site: http://dienekes.blogspot.com.au/2011/12/forensic-analysis-of-king-tut-and-his.html

Please set things straight for me Merci, Thankyou.
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Orwell
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"That Tutankhamun and his family were south African!"

Nubian? Or from the region of modern South Africa? (Where did you read this btw?)

The West European thing sounds decidedly odd. Idea
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cormac mac airt
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 9:39 pm    Post subject: Re: King Tutankhamun's DNA Reply with quote

Phephe wrote:
I am completely bewildered on the subject of the most recent, factual and accurate DNA about King Tutankhamun!
As soon as something is submitted into the press it seems to argued against and changed so regurlarly that I just can't keep up!
So I was hoping that some fo you on Egyptian Dreams would be able to understand what is accurate and true and what is not?

For starters! King Tutankhamun defanetly had a club foot and died of Malaria? Right? Well some believe that he died of a sickle cell?

His Mother and Father were full blood brother and sister right?

Now I'm kind of walking on thin ice when bringing up this certain topic, I just wish to know which is more accurate or if both are just dismissable!

In 2010 it was released that Tutankhamun was discovered to be 99.6 Western European! Ofcourse this stirred up a big contraversy. Though at the beginning of this year it is 'aparent' That Tutankhamun and his family were south African!

Site: http://www.arthurkemp.com/2010/05/king-tuts-dna-is-996-percent-match-with.html

site: http://dienekes.blogspot.com.au/2011/12/forensic-analysis-of-king-tut-and-his.html

Please set things straight for me Merci, Thankyou.


R1b does not originate in Western Europe, but in Southwest Asia, so this negates any claim of Tutankhamun being of Western European descent.

Taking Dienekes blog into account, two things stand out in my mind:

1) Since there is insufficient information to estimate levels of admixture, then there is no way of determining whether these markers are in fact native to Africa or if they were brought into Africa from elsewhere. The appearance of said markers in Africa now does not, in and of itself, mean that they originated there.

If Tutankhamun is in fact of Y Chromosome R1b descent, then his paternal ancestry is decidedly not African in origin (directly speaking) as R1b originates <18,500 BP in Southwest Asia.

I myself would like to see specific testing done to confirm R1b as well as determine what Tutankhamun's mitochondrial (mtDNA) haplogroup is.

cormac
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Orwell
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:34 pm    Post subject: Re: King Tutankhamun's DNA Reply with quote

cormac mac airt wrote:
If Tutankhamun is in fact of Y Chromosome R1b descent, then his paternal ancestry is decidedly not African in origin (directly speaking) as R1b originates <18,500 BP in Southwest Asia.

I myself would like to see specific testing done to confirm R1b as well as determine what Tutankhamun's mitochondrial (mtDNA) haplogroup is.

cormac


Does it offer up anything about Tutankhamen's 'maternal' ancestry?
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cormac mac airt
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:15 am    Post subject: Re: King Tutankhamun's DNA Reply with quote

Orwell wrote:
cormac mac airt wrote:
If Tutankhamun is in fact of Y Chromosome R1b descent, then his paternal ancestry is decidedly not African in origin (directly speaking) as R1b originates <18,500 BP in Southwest Asia.

I myself would like to see specific testing done to confirm R1b as well as determine what Tutankhamun's mitochondrial (mtDNA) haplogroup is.

cormac


Does it offer up anything about Tutankhamen's 'maternal' ancestry?


Actually no, not as yet. Further testing was supposed to be forthcoming to show the Hyper Variable Region 1 (HVR1) of all mummies in the study but so far no results have been presented.

cormac
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Orwell
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This failure to release the DNA data must be giving Egyopologists the utter you know what's. It's annoying me, and I've only been here a short time.
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cormac mac airt
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orwell wrote:
This failure to release the DNA data must be giving Egyopologists the utter you know what's. It's annoying me, and I've only been here a short time.


Not just Egyptologists, but many other people as well, professional and laymen alike.

cormac
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:05 pm    Post subject: Re: King Tutankhamun's DNA Reply with quote

Phephe wrote:
I am completely bewildered on the subject of the most recent, factual and accurate DNA about King Tutankhamun!
As soon as something is submitted into the press it seems to argued against and changed so regurlarly that I just can't keep up!
So I was hoping that some fo you on Egyptian Dreams would be able to understand what is accurate and true and what is not?

For starters! King Tutankhamun defanetly had a club foot and died of Malaria? Right? Well some believe that he died of a sickle cell?


Examinations of Tutankhamun's body have confirmed a mild club foot as well as a mild cleft palette. Both are likely the end results of inbreeding. This cannot be known with certainty, but it's generally regarded as likely because Tut was not only the product of a brother-sister marriage but was also the very last of a long-lived line of kings we call the Tuthmosides. This was one of the longest lines of ancestral monarchs in pharaonic history--and many of these kings married sisters or half-sisters.

I am not aware of legitimate findings of sickle cell, but cerebral malaria was detected in the 2007-2009 analyses. This is the most severe form of malaria and would've been fatal in many cases in ancient history.

However, it cannot be demonstrated for certain that cerebral malaria killed Tutankhamun. Most specialists who've studied the actual body turn to the severe compound fracture of his left distal femur, right above the knee. There would've been no sure way for physicians of the Bronze Age to treat this, and indeed the CT scans of 2005 indicated strong signs of infection and inflammation in the wound, suggesting it was still fresh when he died. Most likely this injury led to sepsis, and it was infection that killed Tut. From what I've read, Tut probably died between five and seven days after sustaining this injury.

Still, even if he'd never fractured his leg, there's a good chance the malaria would've killed him. And if that had not done it, Tut was also suffering from osteonecrosis in his left foot--one of the toe bones was literally dying inside his foot. Infection from this could've been fatal, too. This poor royal kid was screwed, in other words.

Quote:
His Mother and Father were full blood brother and sister right?


Yes, this is correct. His father was the mummy we call KV55 and his mother was the mummy we call KV35YL. We refer to them by these designations because no one can be certain of their precise identities. As you can see by several ongoing threads right in this section of the forum, most people are split between Akhenaten and Smenkhkare as the identity for the KV55 mummy. The identity for the KV35YL mummy is even murkier. But based on genetic analyses, these two people definitely were full brother and sister, and they were definitely Tut's parents.

Quote:
Now I'm kind of walking on thin ice when bringing up this certain topic, I just wish to know which is more accurate or if both are just dismissable!

In 2010 it was released that Tutankhamun was discovered to be 99.6 Western European! Ofcourse this stirred up a big contraversy. Though at the beginning of this year it is 'aparent' That Tutankhamun and his family were south African!


Cormac is the man to turn to with genetic questions, and I see he's already stepped in to contribute. I will add that not long after JAMA released its report on the results of the genetic and pathological examinations, erroneous information leaked onto the internet that Tut's DNA revealed he was European. I cannot remember the name of the genetic marker but this marker does in fact appear in people of North Africa, too.

Cormac identified possible connections with Southwest Asia, which would not be the least unusual. By the time Tut was born, Egypt had already had several millennia of contact and interaction with peoples from this region (the Levant, Syria, Mesopotamia). Plenty of people from Southwest Asia were living in Egypt in and before Tut's time, and they represented all strata of society: from farmers to nobility.

Quote:
Site: http://www.arthurkemp.com/2010/05/king-tuts-dna-is-996-percent-match-with.html

site: http://dienekes.blogspot.com.au/2011/12/forensic-analysis-of-king-tut-and-his.html


I would recommend caution when choosing sources. The first link is just to a blog about "Random Thoughts and Updates." The second references the work of DNA Tribes. Its agenda and conclusions are suspect. I recently had to close and lock another discussion here at ED in which DNA Tribes was the focus, and there was a clear afrocentric bent. We prefer to avoid such issues--they're bound to mislead the reader, if you're not careful.

I would highly recommend tracking down and downloading the original JAMA report. Get the info straight from the source. It won't have information on race, however, because that was not of concern to the scientists who were examining the Amarna mummies in 2007-2009. Wink
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