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The Favourite Kiya
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2004 5:49 pm    Post subject: The Favourite Kiya Reply with quote

I have always found “The Royal Favourite Kiya” very interesting. There are so many conflicting theories about her.

Some think that she was the Mitanni Princess Tadukhipa. It seems clear that Akhenaten did marry this Princess. Some speculate that her name sounded more like “Tadu-kiya”, and this got abbreviated to Kiya.
Others see her name as being related to names like Tiye, Tey, Ay etc, and have suggested that she was another relative of Ay, Tiye and that whole family from Akhmin.
She could of course be none of the above, and be some other lady from to Harem.

She had a temple called the Maru-Aten dedicated to her, but her image on that structure were later altered to that of Queen / Princess Meritaten.

She has been put forth as the possible mother of Smenkhare and Tutankhamen. She is known from reliefs to have had a daughter. We don’t knnow the daughter’s name, but I’ve seen her referred to as Kiya-Tasjerit (“Kiya-junior”).

Many busts have been found when Borchard (?) excavated in Amarna, and some of the busts have been tentatively identified as being Kiya. She has a round face, and is shown wearing large earrings.

Several items from tomb 55 in the King’s Valley are thought to have originally belonging to Kiya. The inscriptions on the bands of the mummycase had been altered. Akhenaten’s name had been excised, but it is now believed that the only name that could have been inscribed for the owner was Kiya’s. The stoppers on the canopic jars are also thought by some to depict Kiya. (Others believe that they may actually depict several different people).

One inscription in the Royal tomb at Amarna is thought to depict Kiya’s death in child-birth. Some see the baby in the scene as a baby-picture of Tutankaten Smile
(Other theories have also been put forth.)

Is anything else known about Kiya?
Was she Tut’s mother?
Was she from Mitanni? (The last two theories would have made Tut half foreign!)
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Sesen
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of what I've read of Kiya has her as Tadukhipa (nicknamed Kiya) the young Mitanni niece of Gilukhipa, who becomes Amenhotep III's wife in his 36th year of ruling. After his passing she becomes Akhenatens 'Greatly beloved Wife'.
One site has her as the mother of Tutankaten and Semkhare and this is given as a reason for the murder of these two kings. Ay is implicated in the crime, considering that line 'illegal' and in opposition to the family of Tiye - his sister.
Another idea has Gilukhipa as the mother of a Mery-Kiya (Amenhotep III the father). Mery-Kiya bares a son to Akhenaton, Tutankaten.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sesen wrote:
........
Another idea has Gilukhipa as the mother of a Mery-Kiya (Amenhotep III the father). Mery-Kiya bares a son to Akhenaton, Tutankaten.


I have only seen Mery-Kiya mentioned on websites claiming that Moses is Akhenaten. I think that this is speculation. I have never heard of any inscriptional evidence.

There is supposedly an inscription which mentions that the name of Tutankhamen's mother was Merit-Ra.
Some (Dennis Forbes) have speculated that this is a renamed Meritaten.
Aten is a sungod - Re is a sungod...

I'm not sure I believe that either.

There's an intresting discussion about the Merit-Ra scarab at:


http://www.egyptology.com/kmt/summer98/forum.html

There's some throw away remark about Tut's mother being Mutnofret. No idea where that's coming from at all.
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Sesen
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I have only seen Mery-Kiya mentioned on websites claiming that Moses is Akhenaten. I think that this is speculation. I have never heard of any inscriptional evidence.

Your quite right, I didnt bother finding the url because speculation is all it is.
When it comes down to the nitty gritty really nobody knows his lineage. Speculation is interesting, facts would be great. Tutankamuns parentage 'may' give up clues as to why he was murdered. All these Mery, Meri, Merit theophoric names, so common, do you have any info on what they actually mean?

Great article, yes strange comment from the editor
Quote:
Besides, it is well attested that Tut's mother was Mutnofret, not a Meritre.
???? the wife of Horemheb?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait, I figured Nefertiti was the head wife....not Kiya.
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Sesen
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, Nefertiti was Great Wife.
Kiya was 'Greatly beloved wife' secondary at that time.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have read several times now that she was referred to as "the Great lady from Naharin".
Naharin is just another name for Mitanni.
There are quite a few examples of Mitanni princesses marrying Egyptian Kings:

Thutmosis IV married a daughter of Artatama. Some think this princess was actually the great wife Mutemwiya. Others think that Mutemwiya was a sister of Yuya and hence the aunt of Queen Tiye.

Amenhotep III married the Princess Gilukhipa.

Amenhotep III also had Tadukhipa sent over and may have married her, but from correspondence it seems clear that Tadukhipa later married Akhenaten. This Tadukhipa is believed by many to be Kiya.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is interesting I think to compare the position of Kiya, the daughter of the King of Mitanni(?), then an important ally, with the position of Maathorneferure the wife of Ramses II.

During Ramses's time the Mitanni had lost their power somewhat, and the new dominant power in that region of the world was Hatti.

Ramses married the daughter of King Hattusilis and Queen Puduchepa. She became an important wife, but just like in Kiya's case, she was outranked by the King's daughters.
By the time Maathorneferure came to Egypt, Nefertari and Iset-Nofret were dead, and their place at court had been taken by their respective daughters: Meritamen and Bintanath.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot to mention:
Mitanni was situated between the upper Euphrates and Tigris rivers. I think that puts the location somewhere in North-West Iraq and East Turkey. I think that area is presently inhabited by the Kurds.

Hatti lay in present day Turkey I believe.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This site has some info on the Hittite kingdom and their surrounds
http://***.edu/~jcrose/anth3903/ovhed4/
Although this statement
Quote:
A daughter of Hattusili is married to Ramesses II --great royal wife - queen of Egypt!

is lacking in accuracy - unless he's saying Nefertari was also a daughter of Hattusili!
It also says that in the time of Hittite king Suppiluliuma I, the Mittani had a treaty with Egypt - Amenophis III. Perhaps this indicates why he was suspicious of Ankesenpa atens request for a husband?

Maathorneferure - this would be her Egyptian name? I wonder if it is at all similar to the Mittani names Gilukhipa or Tadukhipa - if they are Mittani names.

Quote:
It is interesting I think to compare the position of Kiya, the daughter of the King of Mitanni(?), then an important ally, with the position of Maathorneferure the wife of Ramses II.


You know speaking of similarities, between Ramses II and AmenhotepIII there are a few others I've noticed: both have extraordinary power/wealth, married to a Nefertari (Tiye Nefertari, then Nefertiti, a close varient of Nefertari) who have a daughter Meritamun/Meritaten who take their mothers role after their death. Talk about history repeating itself! Laughing [/quote]
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anneke
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tyldesley states that Maathorneferure was promoted to be "principal wife".
She further says that MHN starts to appear on royal monuments as a fully fledged Egyptian Queen. Tyldesley does go on to say that MHN never actually served as Queen. That role was played by Meritamon and Bintanath, the daughter/wives.


You talked about the name similarities between wives etc of Amenhotep III and Ramses II.
I wonder if there was a conscious attempt to emulate this previous king? Amenhotep III was the last truly great King before Ramses II (qua power and prestige that is).

Ramses III did use this type of name association to connect himself to Ramses II. He name all of his sons after the sons of Ramses II. And His great wife's name was Isis Ta-Hamdjilat (not the same, but compare to Isis-Nofret, the wife of Ramses II).
The wife of Ramses III implicated in the harem revolt was called Tiye, which is a short version of Nefertari.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I wonder if there was a conscious attempt to emulate this previous king? Amenhotep III was the last truly great King before Ramses II (qua power and prestige that is).


I've been pondering that since yesterday. I'm wondering if it's connected to the importance they seemed to place on maintaining traditions of the past.
The artwork in tombs followed pretty strict rules as to content and form, it doesn't seem to be art for arts sake, but art for maintaining religious tradition and Maat. Over such a considerable time, it changed relatively little. Armana being an obvious exception.
Amenhotep III set a bench mark for building monumental monuments, accumulating wealth, wives, having a long and relatively peaceful reign. A glorious golden era in their history and one I'm sure Ramses II would have wanted to be remembered for also. A recreation or continuation of a great past, down through the 19th Dynasty.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm new to this board, but I thought I'd at least say hi. You guys seem to have some pretty interting discussions... I look forward to "broadening my horizonz" a little by reading them. wav
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

*waves* Hi Serenity welcome! Very Happy
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