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God of Justice?
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anneke
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:23 pm    Post subject: God of Justice? Reply with quote

I noticed the following item on a newsblog. (It's short so I'll post it Smile )

Quote:
(Egyptian State Information Service)
"The Egyptian ambassador in the Hague Ahmed Fathallah will on Monday offer a statue representing the Pharaonic god of justice to the international Court of Justice (ICJ) on the occasion of the 60th anniversary of its establishment, sources at the Egyptian embassy said on Sunday. The head of the court will receive the statue in a ceremony to be attended by all members of the court including Egyptian judge Nabil al Arabi."
This is the entire posting on the SIS website.


Do they mean Maat? I thought Maat was the goddess of justice (well, goddess of order).

Or is there another god of justice I'm not aware of? Very Happy

I thought it was a nice idea to gift such a statue to the international court.

The newsblog is here btw:
http://touregypt.net/TEBlog/egyptologynews/
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Sesen
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess they do mean Maat, in the media she is often just referred to in that way.

The statue is a lovely idea - especially with things they are in the world today, we could do with a whole dollop of justice, order and balance Smile
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anneke
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was a bit thrown off by the "god" part Very Happy Maat is a lady not a laddy.

I did a search on god of justice and found 1 reference to Toth being a god of Justice. (but he's usually described as the god of wisdom).

Very Happy Oh well.

I'm curious if they are giving an ancient statue or a modern statue based on these ancient deities? It didn't really say.
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Sesen
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I was a bit thrown off by the "god" part Maat is a lady not a laddy.

Laughing yes good point.

Would be quite fun having ibis headed Thoth in an important gathering of international big-wigs - perhaps more appropriate to have him in his baboon form, some of those dignitaries act like apes Wink

Would be great to see a photo of the statue when they present it.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sesen wrote:
.... perhaps more appropriate to have him in his baboon form, some of those dignitaries act like apes Wink


LMAO That is true Very Happy

Maybe they should consider presenting them with 12 baboon statues Laughing
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your search served you well, anneke. Thoth was indeed considered the god of justice, among numerous other things. Most of the Egyptian deities were very good at multitasking. Job requirement, you see. Very Happy
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Khepesh
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmt_sesh wrote:
Thoth was indeed considered the god of justice, among numerous other things.

Wasn't Djehuty (Thoth) more so considered a God of equilibrium as opposed to our modern views of 'Good triumphing over Evil' justice? I can't remember exactly where I read it, but I seem to remember it saying something along the lines of Djehuty not allowing either side of the spectrum to gain unrivalled power. More so I believe this had to do with the battle of Sutekh (Set) and Heru (Horus) in their first roles as brothers. Later, when the Osirian cult gained prescedence and Sutekh became less of a necessary evil and more of a devilish figure (though strictly speaking he still retained his lable of God and had some good aspects) Heru gained a victory over Sutekh; but If memory serves me correctly this wasn't until the Osirian cult became widely spread. With Heru (God of the sky) and Sutekh (God of storms) in their earliest incarnations, the battle was seen as never-ending and necessary.

I might be totally wrong -shrugs- but this is what comes to my mind. Any correction would be greatly appreciated as I am here primarily to learn. For all I know Djehuty held both titles... Trying to remember all of His titles is like trying to find how many grains of sand are in the desert Wink
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freeTinker
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sesen wrote:
I guess they do mean Maat, ... especially with things they are in the world today,(and, yesterday; and tomorrow) we could do with a whole dollop of justice, order and balance Smile


Ma'at never changing, huh?
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kylejustin
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isn't osiris a god of judgement? he does oversee the weighing of the heart ceremony.
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neseret
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kylejustin wrote:
isn't osiris a god of judgement? he does oversee the weighing of the heart ceremony.


No, Osiris is the god-king to whom the final judgment is given, as a lord of the underworld. It's Thoth who records the weighing of the heart of the deceased and then announces it to the 42 assessors of the Dead (judges), who then pass the judgment, which is in turn delivered to Osiris.

Osiris does not judge, but like in ancient Egyptian society, adheres like a king to the ruling of his /qnbt/ (court of law).

See:

Faulkner, R. O. and C. Andrews. 1985. The Ancient Egyptian Book of the Dead. Austin: University of Texas Press/British Museum.

Piankoff, A. and C. Maystre. 1939-1946. Le Livre des Portes. Mémoires de l'Institut français du Caire 74 and 75. Cairo: IFAO.

Zandee, J. 1969. The Book of Gates. In Unknown, Ed., Liber Amicorum: Studies in Honour of Professor Dr. C. J. Bleeker. Studies in the History of Religions (Supplements to Numen) XVII. Leiden: Brill.

All of these discuss the judgment of the dead process.
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chillie
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, beautiful, I LOOOOVE this.... If anyone gets any more info.... You see? The old ways always find their way into our lives, even if diluted....
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freeTinker
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps it could be argued that the true god of justice... is in actual fact, the self

Wink
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

neseret wrote:
... like in ancient Egyptian society, adheres like a king to the ruling of his /qnbt/ (court of law). ...

Wasn't Thot in mythology wesir at the court of Ra? The wesir, as high priest of Maat, was highest judge in AE. Perhaps from there "god of justice" for Thot comes from?

Greetings, Lutz.
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Osiris II
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The name Osiris is the Greek word for the hieroglyph 'Wesir' or Wsr', which is thought to mean 'He who is strong', but no definite conclusion has been reached.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:
... wesir at the court of Ra? The wesir, as high priest of Maat, ...

Sorry, English is not my native language ... "Vezir" is naturally the correct writing.
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