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Ahmose, Ray and Menkheperresoneb

 
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Sesen
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Location: Luxor

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:02 pm    Post subject: Ahmose, Ray and Menkheperresoneb Reply with quote

I've been organizing all my notes on little pieces of paper onto my computer and cross referencing them with Anneke's lists, info from Rozette and others.
There are 3 people I've found interesting and I wonder if they might be related.

Ahmose of TT 121 (temp Thutmose III) was Second Prophet of AmunRe, First Lector Priest, First Prophet in Henqet-ankh (mortuary temple of Thutmose III), and Great Offspring of the King amongst many other important titles.

Ray of TT 72 (temp Amenhotep II) has an extraordinary list of First Prophet in 5 different posts. His father is given as Ahmose (First Prophet of Amun) and his mother as Rey (Royal Concubine). There is mention of 3 brothers, Amenhotep (First Lector Priest of Amun), Senres (First Prophet), and Menkheperresoneb (First Prophet)

The last person is Menkheperresoneb of TT86/112 who's highest post was First Prophet of Amun (temp Thutmose III). His father was Amenemhet (I have no titles for him) and mother was Taonet (Kings Nurse).

I wondered if this Menkheperresoneb could be a relation to Ray and the 'brother' being one of the many other familial possibilities the term can denote? The 2 mothers Rey as Royal Concubine and Taonet as Kings Nurse put both woman very close to the royal family.

The Ahmose I mentioned first (TT121) does have a different title (Second Prophet AmunRe) to the father of Ray (First Prophet Amun). But TT121 Ahmose does have 2 titles that may indicate a connection to Ray

- First Lector Priest (as does the brother of Ray Amenhotep) and

- First Prophet in Henqet-ankh (mortuary temple of Thutmose III and the First Prophet titles of Ray show a very close loyalty to the cult of Thutmose III). Even the name of his brother Menkheperresoneb is a loyalist name to Thumose III - that could very easily be circumstantial though considering the time period.

Laughing Is that completely confusing or what..

Would anyone have any further info on the families of any of these people?
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I enter as a hawk, I come out as a benu bird in the morning.-- Pert em-Hru, ch. 13
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anneke
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You probably have this already, but there's a description of TT 72 by Piccione on the web:
http://www.cofc.edu/~piccione/t2p2/1990report.html

Here the link between Ahmose and Ray is made (father -son)

In the 1996 report it is mentioned that Ray completed his father's tomb.

In 1998 the info is given that Ahmose was also sealbearer of the King of Lower Egypt, Overseer of Upper and Lower Egypt.
Ahmose is the son of the Magistrate (zab) Ramose and the housewife Bak[..].

No mention is made of Menkheperresoneb being related to this family.

I have two Menkheperresonebs Very Happy
Menkheperraseneb (I), High priest of Amun, Temp. Tuthmosis III (Possibly TT 86?). Apparently the uncle of Menkheperreseneb II.

Menkheperraseneb (II), High priest of Amun, Temp. Tuthmosis III TT 112.
High Priest of Amun, Superintendent of the Gold and silver treasuries, Chief of the Overseers of Craftsmen
Parents: Amenemhet and Taonet (King's nurse)

This is based on this article:
Article from Gizapyramids site

Dorman argued that there are 2 Menkheperresonebs, the first one being an uncle of the second one.
The younger one is the son of Amenemhet and Taonet.

[There's another one: TT79. Menkheper(raseneb), Overseer of the granary, wab-priest in the mortuary temple of Tuthmosis III, Temp. Tuthmosis III - Amenhotep II Father: Minnakht (TT87);  Son: Nebenmaet (Temple-scribe in the mortuary temple of Tuthmosis III)
But this one is not a HPA]
[/quote]
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Sesen
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy Thanks Anneke

I had tried to get the Piccione link to work from my saved copy of your theban tombs list but kept getting a error page. I must have stuffed up the link. Didn't occur to me to go to your site and try there Laughing so thankyou for posting the link as I now know where it led too.

Its a fascinating report - it does sound a little familar, I could have read it before and not clicked as to who the Ahmose was. It mentions that the image of Ray was carefully removed, yet his name was left alone. I wonder what may have happened to spark this sort of half-hearted attack.
A power shift between families perhaps or the chiseller could'nt read to destroy Rays name?

Ahmose had a title that interested me - 'great offspring of the king' and given that he has named parents I wonder if this is a form of the 'child of the kap' or some other connection to the king?

Pity about the Menkheperreseneb's it would have been nice to tie the First Prophets into Ahmose's family, maybe more info will come to light at a later date.
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Priestess of Hathor, Superior of the Harem of Min, dedicated to Maat, beloved of Seshat and Nekhbet.
I enter as a hawk, I come out as a benu bird in the morning.-- Pert em-Hru, ch. 13
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anneke
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't know about the title "great offspring of the king".
That is an intriguing title. Could mean something like child of the kap as you mentioned, or maybe a distant relative of another king? Although it seems to be a bit of a rule to stay mum about any connections to the royal house.

I wonder what the egyptian title says. Just brainstorming/guessing but it could say something like "made great by the king".

The family is rather important (or at least well-connected). Do I remember correctly and didn't they serve at the temples at Deir el Bahari? All of the close male relatives seem to serve in rather high positions in the priesthood.
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