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Best Pharaohs to compare and contrast?

 
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Nefertem's Lotus
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:58 am    Post subject: Best Pharaohs to compare and contrast? Reply with quote

I have got to do an essay contrasting and comparing two of the following pharaohs:

Hatshepsut

Akhenaten

Tuthmosis III

Ramesses II

Tutankhamun

Cleopatra VII

Who do you think would be the best ones to choose? I could right a lot about any of them, I don't know who to choose!
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anneke
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two compare/contrast kinda jumped out at me:

Hatshepsut and Cleopatra VII are two ruling Queens. Married their half-brothers. Their dealings with the foreign lands is different (partially because they are from completely different time periods). One was native Egyptian, the other was egyptian but descendant from a long line of Macedonian Greeks.


Tuthmosis III and Ramses II are both known for their military exploits. They were both followed by a capable son (Amenhotep II and Merneptah resp.).


Does seem like a tough choice Very Happy
Akhenaten - Tutankhamen also gives plenty to talk about. Barring the short Smenkhare - Nefernferuaten interlude, they followed one another rather closely, but the religious situation was so different and had such a big impact.
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would agree with anneke on the comparison between Hatshepsut and Cleopatra. It would seem obvious on the surface but there's lots of material there, beginning with the vast differences in Egypt between Dynasty 18 (Hatshepsut) and the end of the Ptolemaic Period (Cleopatra).

I'd think an excellent contrast could be made between Akhenaten as the "heretic" and upsetter of the old ways and either Tuthmosis III or Ramesses II as powerful rulers who maintained orthodoxy. Added to the interest here is the relatively short span of time during which these three different kings lived.

Are you in college or high school, Nefertem's Lotus? It may seem a crazy thing to say, but I miss those days. I would love just to spend the rest of my life studying and researching. Very Happy
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Jane Akshar
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me it would have to be Tutmosis III and Ramses II. One I reall admire and the other I don't.

I think Tut III is such an interesting Pharaoh with his military exploits, the relationship with Hapshetsut, his tomb, the Botanical room, the festival hall all showing such depth and range to his character. He is likened the Napoleon Bonaparte.

Ram II on the other hand is boorish and egotistical his military exploits are dubious, his eye for artistry non existent, I joke that he is a Texan, he likes everything big and lots of it.

Get the impression I am prejudiced but if I was writing the essay at least it would be lively Laughing
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Nefertem's Lotus
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hiya, thanks for that. I am going to write (I can't believe I spelt that wrong on my first post) a list of points I could write about for those pairs and see which I have the most for. It has got to be about 2000 words which is quite ok. I'm up for that, although I will probably end up writing more . (I bet that's nothing for you lot).

Oh by the way kmt_sesh I am in the first year of sixth form at school (I am 16). I can't wait to go to university. I have had everything planned out for ages. Very Happy I hope I get to go on an excavation in Egypt on my course. I think I get to learn the language as well. I'm so excited hehe Very Happy .
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I am in the first year of sixth form at school (I am 16). I can't wait to go to university. I have had everything planned out for ages. I hope I get to go on an excavation in Egypt on my course. I think I get to learn the language as well. I'm so excited hehe.


Sounds like a great course of action, Nefertem's Lotus. I hope it all works out for you. Wink
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barbel
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi Nefertem's Lotus,
This sounds like the course i did i went for Tuthmosis III and Ramesses II.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
This sounds like the course i did i went for Tuthmosis III and Ramesses II.


The more I think about this topic, Nefertem's Lotus, the more I think I'd have to agree with Jane Akshar and barbel. I didn't look at it closely enough before, but comparing and contrasting Tuthmosis III and Ramesses II would make for an interesting and enjoybale study.
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Harmachis
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This sounds very like an essay I'm working on for a home-study course. After a HUGE amount of thought I ended up choosing Tuthmosis III and Khufu - VERY different I know, but I figure that gives me a lot to potentially compare (though I'm limited to 1000 words!!).
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barbel
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi Hamachis,
Besides his pyramid and family its hard going to find out any valid details about khufu.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Papyrus Westcar might be a fun resource to use though Smile

http://www.rostau.org.uk/WESTCAR/

It's a story told by the sons of Khufu.

Wikipedia has this to say:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westcar_Papyrus

The first story, told by an unknown son of Khufu (possibly Djedefra), is missing everything but the conclusion. It seems to have been a text detailing a miracle performed by a lector priest in the reign of king Djoser, possibly the famous Imhotep himself.

The second story, told by Khafra, is set during the reign of Khufu's predecessor. King Nebka's chief lector finds that his wife is having an affair with a townsman of Memphis, and he fashions a crocodile in wax. Upon learning that his adulterous wife is meeting her lover, he spells the figurine to come to life at the contact with water, and sets his caretaker to throw it in the stream by which the townsman enters and leaves the lector's estate undiscovered. Upon catching the townsman, the crocodile takes him to the bottom of the lake, where they remain for seven days as the lector entertains the visiting pharaoh. When he tells Nebka the story, and calls the crocodile up again, the king bids the crocodile take what belongs to it (it proceeds to eat the townsman), and has the adulterous wife brought north, set on fire and thrown in the river.

The third story, told by another son named Bauefre, is set during the reign of Khufu's father Sneferu. The king is bored and his chief lector advises him to gather twenty young women and use them to sail him around the palace lake. Sneferu orders twenty beautiful oars made, and gives the women nets to drape around them as they sail. However, one of the girls loses an amulet - a turquoise fish so dear to her that she'll not even accept a substitute from the royal treasury, and until it's returned to her neither her nor any of the other girls will row. The king laments this, and the chief lector folds aside the water to allow the retrieval of the amulet, then folds the water back.

The fourth story, told by Hardedef, concerns a miracle set within Khufu's own reign. A townsman named Dedi apparently has the power to reattach a severed head unto an animal, tame a wild lion and knows the number of rooms in the secret shrine of Thoth. Khufu, intrigued, sends his son to fetch this wiseman, and upon Dedi's arrival at court he orders a goose, a waterfowl and an oxe beheaded. Dedi reattaches the heads. Khufu then questions him on his knowledge on the shrine of Thoth, and Dedi answers that he does not know the number of rooms, but he knows where they are. When Khufu asks for the wheres and hows, Dedi answers that the one who can give Khufu access is not him, but the first of the three future kings in the womb of the woman Reddedet. This is a prophecy detailing the beginnings of the 5. dynasty, starting with Userkaf.

The final, incomplete story, breaks from the format and moves the focus to Reddedet's birth of her three sons. Upon the day of her birth, Ra orders Isis, Nephthys, Meskhenet, Heket and Khnum to aid her. They disguise themselves as musicians and hurry to Reddedet's house to help her with the difficult birth. The three children are born, each described as strong and healthy, with limbs covered in gold and headdresses of lapis lazuli, Meskhenet saying a prophecy of their kingship over all three in turn, and the gods leave, but not before leaving a sack of corn in which is hidden three crowns. Reddedet is pleased with this news and, after cleansing herself, tells her rejoicing husband, and orders her maid-servant to fetch materials for beer from the sack left by the gods.

The maid hears feasting and music when she enters the storage room, and finds it come from the sack containing the three crowns. When she later has an argument with her mistress and receives a beating, she flees and vows to tell king Khufu of these events, but on the way she meets her brother and tells the story to him. Displeased, he beats her and sends her running to the water's edge where a crocodile catches her. The brother then goes to see Reddedet, who's crying over the loss of the girl. The brother starts to confess what has happened, but at this point the papyrus breaks off and the rest of the story is lost.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The third story, told by another son named Bauefre, is set during the reign of Khufu's father Sneferu. The king is bored and his chief lector advises him to gather twenty young women and use them to sail him around the palace lake. Sneferu orders twenty beautiful oars made, and gives the women nets to drape around them as they sail. However, one of the girls loses an amulet - a turquoise fish so dear to her that she'll not even accept a substitute from the royal treasury, and until it's returned to her neither her nor any of the other girls will row. The king laments this, and the chief lector folds aside the water to allow the retrieval of the amulet, then folds the water back.

folds aside the water Moses did Idea
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would pick Akhenaten vs. Thutmose III - the isolationist vs the expansionist; the poet vs the warrior; the heretic vs the pious etc....




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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would be one of the most interesting comparisons, to be sure. Those two were about as opposite as kings could be.
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