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Rough outline of Nubian History

 
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anneke
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:33 pm    Post subject: Rough outline of Nubian History Reply with quote

This is more of a "note to self" Very Happy
I've only recently started to read up a bit more about Nubia and I had a hard time getting a very general timeline in my head.

It helps me process some of the information;

_____________________________________________

Rough outline of Nubian History and its people


A-Group: ca 4000 BC - 3000 BC (compare pre-dynastic and early dynasty AE) Kings were buried at Sayala and Qustul.

Then upper and lower Nubia take slightly different tracks:
B-Group ca 2800 BC seems to have occupied Lower Nubia.
C-Group ca 2240 BC -. 2150 BC and the Pan-Graves culture are present in Lower Nubia. Some think the C-group is an off-shoot of the Kerma culture.
Kerma : ca 2500 BC – 1500 BC develops in Upper Nubia. The kingdom of Kerma is apparently at its height at ca 1750 BC. The Kerma culture is what the Egyptians refer to as Kush.

Egyptian Occupation
Nubia was occupied by the Egyptians from ca 1550 BC –1070 BC

Napatan Kingdom ca 1070 – 400 BC
A kingdom developed after the last rulers of the 20th dynasty lost control of Nubian territories. At the height of their power these Napatan Rulers ruled Egypt as the 25th dynasty. (ca 727 – 664 BC). The Napatans were driven out of Egypt by the Assyrians, but remained in control of their Nubian territories.

Kingdom of Meroe ca 400 BC - 100 AD. The Napatan state was eventually succeeded by by the Meroitic state which lasted some 500 years. Meroitic Nubia was contemporary with Ptolemaic and Roman Egypt.
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Mandi
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:50 pm    Post subject: Ermm Alternative Reply with quote

I think my dates are different, Not that it matters but i just thought i might offer them to you as a comparative:

Meroitic Kush c.300 BC - AD 350 (The Nubian Past An Archaeology of The Sudan, David N. Edwards.) First page of chapter 6 in chapter title.

(Didn't notice really your dates on Napata, but thought i would mention the dates set out in this book just incase they are different as well) (Claims by the eighth century BC Napata period started... Not sure how that works with his dates on Meroeitic period....) Also claims at this time Meroe could already be a major political area during the Napata Period (or kingdom) (Claims Meroe could as early as the 6th century be the home of the kushite kings) Oh! My bad and apologies! I made a mistake! He DOES place Alara as the first Napatan king... Except that he declares there were atleast two prior generation of kings (kings he uses, not chieftains) Well i hope my dates can be of some use in some way or other... (or rather his dates)
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Mandi
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:21 pm    Post subject: Sorry to keep going on this... Reply with quote

The book of umm lectures so to speak that come from the university of Leicester, through which i am studying a distance program in Egypt and Nubian Archaeology, states some things that might be interesting due to your time line...

"Sometime around the early fourth century, the kingdom of Meroe disapears. Meroe itself seems to have declined as a major centre. "(talks about temples and palaces going out of use temples being destroyed not really relevant to dates... bla bla bla pyramids stop being built mid 4th century....) (It continues on dates..) "We have prescious few reliable dates dates for the Meroitic kinggs; the last reasonably secure date we have (for king Teqorideamani) is actually in 253 AD. After him it has been proposed that there may have been 5-6 l.ater kings- which really means there are 5-6 pyramids which may be later than his."

(It seems the true focus of this study is on Nubia to be honest i am a bit disapointed i was really more interested in Egypt.... And that is what they titled this course.... Making Nubia sound sort of like a "minor" as opposed to the major. Oh wow i asked a question earlier about the ending of Meroe and if i had just kept reading i woulda gotten one... oops... It claims the end of Meroe, is according to many books the Axumite state, According to my book here which claims that this "alledged" invasion is the end according to most books, they also say we must accept this case of the Axumite take over remains unproven and that there is no evidence that the Axemites ever occupied) and it is also said Noba ppl and the (kasu ppl, taken to be the Kushites) appear in the mid fourth century Ethiopian(Axumite) texts. (dunno what that necesarily means but it seems to hit around the end of the Meroitic Empire as my other book claims...)

Sorry i am finding the discrepancy in the dates hard to swallow and a bit confusing... I am working it out too.
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Rough outline of Nubian History Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
Kingdom of Meroe ca 400 BC - 100 AD. The Napatan state was eventually succeeded by by the Meroitic state which lasted some 500 years. Meroitic Nubia was contemporary with Ptolemaic and Roman Egypt.
Mandi wrote:
Meroitic Kush c.300 BC - AD 350 (The Nubian Past An Archaeology of The Sudan, David N. Edwards.) First page of chapter 6 in chapter title.

I generally use "Die Pharaonen des Goldlandes" (Mannheim) as my guide through Nubian history.
Rocks to know German, yeah...

I think Mandi is most correct here - though a comment needs to be made.
By 100CE Mero had underwent quite some changes and Graeco-Roman influences.
This is why the era between 100-350CE is called the Late Meroic Age.
It is considered a part of the history of the Kingdom of Mero.
Even when during this period multiple Kingdoms arise...

After 350CE you have the advent of Axum etc. indeed.
I know jack *** about this though, so I won't comment there. Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:21 pm    Post subject: I wish... I so wish... Reply with quote

That the word late would have been put there in my book. Thanx for clarifying.... My confusian gets the best of me sometimes.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cannot remember where I got the initial dates from Confused

I just looked in "ancient Nubia: Egypt's rival in Africa" by David O'Connor and you're both right. The Meroitic period is later.
O'Connor has:
750 - 250 BCE for the Napatan era. He mentions that this covers Lower Nubia, Upper Nubia but then includes a region referred to as Southern Nubia I think he means beyond the 5th and 6th cataracts).

250 BCE - [ ] Meroitic period
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very helpful note by the way.
When I was browsing "Die Pharaonen des Goldlandes" I noticed the Hellenised artwork from Mero again.
Really fascinating to see such a mix of deeper African culture and Mediterranean artistic views.
I'd wish there was known more of the advent of the Napatan Kingdom too...
Really would love to know if people like Panehesy had something to do with it.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Segereh wrote:

I'd wish there was known more of the advent of the Napatan Kingdom too...


The only information I have ever seen that comes close is the inscription of Queen Kadimala at Semna.

There is reference to political unrest and possibly some power struggle in the ruling family. The Queen seems to have taken over from her husband. There is also some sene that the importance of the cult of Amun was solidified during that time period.

I think the Kadimala inscription could be as much as 100-200 years before Alara and Kashta though (don't hold me to that time estimate, I don't remember exactly Smile )
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The stela at Amada of Amenhotep II is the first to record a town called Napata, from whose "walls" a Syrian chief was said to have been hung" (Bard 1999: 236).

"According to known inscriptions, Amenhotep undertook at least two campaigns to Syria-Palestine as king. During the first one in his seventh year, quelling a rebellion in Takhshi, the king is said to have rearch Naharin. He then proceeded to Retenu and the Orontes area, taking prisoners and booty. The Amada stela summarizing his campaign mentions, for instance, that six prisoners were taken to Thebes and killed there, then hung on the city wall. Another was taken to Napata in Nubia for the same kind of display" (Ahlstrom 1993: 233).

This first campaign netted booty consisting of 6,800 deben of gold and 500,000 deben of copper (about 1,643 and 120,833 pounds respectively), as well as 550 mariannu captives, 210 horses and 300 chariots.

While the Chronicle of the Pharaohs by Peter A. Clayton gives his reign lasting from 1453 until 1419 BC, The Oxford History of Ancient Egypt provides a reign between 1427 until 1400 BC.

Reference:

Ahlstrom, Gosta Werner. The History of Ancient Palestine, 1993
Bard, Kathryn A. Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt, 1999


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:14 am    Post subject: Political unrest? I actually have some alternative thoughts Reply with quote

I don't think so much political unrest. I think it was just a continuation of the Napata culture, only difference being all those villages in egypt that were disapearing had to be going somewhere. It initially struck me as i was reading one book about how they were by the end of the roman era using criminals and even putting up with christians in the quarries and a mention of difficulty finding people to work there. Ofcourse i may be wrong in this thought but it would seem, past the border into the region of Karma and stuff small new villages were popping up with rather egyptianesque material culture as well as burial styles that were rather egyptianesque as well. I have always lived by the laws of common sense, If it walks like a duck, says "Quack" likes to swim makes it's children walk in a single line formation and has feathers... I hate to say it... I have to believe it is a duck as opposed to say, a cute lil puppy.Again, i am just a student beginning my studies. I am only thinking in accordance with what i have so far managed to have contact with. It may be my opinion changes as i get more familiar with things.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:27 am    Post subject: Oops! Ended that before i meant to! Reply with quote

Sorry, another thing to note, is though allegedly the royalty moved to Meroe, it would seem they also had their coronations in Barkal as they likely would have before building new kick butt castles specially for that purpose. I have to ask myself if such a shift happened.... Then why go back to the capital of a past dynasty that obviously was hardly as cool as the new one that was developing? No you try to align yourself with well loved dynasties with wise rulers who build massive structures. It would seem a few were built during the Napata but it would seem (from what i am reading anyway) that much of the niftiest buildings in Nubia were built in Meroe. (according to my book on Nubia) The only really tangible evidence we have for political unrest would be that the capital moved from the Napata region south. I am not sure that, the move alone should be taken as enough by itself to be "evidence of political unrest" evidence of possible political unrest, yes definately. But there is no evidence of any sort of warfare or fighting and i am not really aware of any writing that indicates anything to do with political unrest. Leaving (as far as i know and if there is something my books have not mentioned please do tell me.) just that move. Which for all i know could be a result in a changing course of the nile or some other factor.... or... who knows what... As for a change in the nile i think i read about something like that... However, my understanding of earth sciences is limited. It appears to me as some odd fusion of distinctly Nubian Napata stuff mixed with some sort of weird egyptian influence to say the very least.

Which brings me to something else rather along a different line but i wanted to discuss it and ask if anyone else had heard of it and if so what they had heard. My book claims that there is a theory about some sort of ancient watertanks so to speak that may go back much further than the Meroe period and even credits the Kush of that period (under speculation of this theory anyway) of having, "excavated" these tanks.... I am wondering if anyone knows what i am talking about.
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys really have got to watch that documentry i've been talking about as it makes all this a little clearer, although i must admit i still find Nubias history timeline confusing at times as aracheologists make vauge references to places/regions in Nubia/Sudan that leave you unsure exactly where they are-although to be honest exact dates don't interest me.

Simply the fact this region has so many different terminologies to describe it confuses me, sometimes it's Nubia othertimes Sudan, Kush or Deeper Africa.

I think Nubias Napatan Kingdom and/or Kingdom of Meroe were mentioned in the documentry but as it was such a long time ago since i saw it i really can't be sure. Perhaps i was simply confused due to the refernces to both the Nubian kingdoms as i simply just took the program to being a documentry about Nubias indigenous culture?
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 4:49 am    Post subject: Yeh it is confusing Reply with quote

Though it is confusing i wonder how much is due to our total lack of ability to read what they write and stuff. I think, too that our grasp of their history is half baked at best. I would also say my opinion is we just haven't been able to do the digging required to tell us too much. I think it isn't exactly confusion but more a lack of uncovered and understood textual evidence that makes the Nubians difficult.... It seems most information is more theory than anything else as we just know so very little.
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bes
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Possibly a bit out of period but I found "The Medieval Kingdoms of Nubia" by Derek A. Welsby interseting.
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