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Who is Nefertiti?
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 7:17 pm    Post subject: Who is Nefertiti? Reply with quote

Nefertiti is probably the best known person from the Amarna period. So, what do we know about her?

There's an article on "touregypt"
http://touregypt.net/featurestories/nefertiti.htm

Her full name is Neferneferuaten-Nefertiti.

The most widely accepted theory about Nefertiti's origin states that she is the daughter of Aye, and his first wife.

There are other theories:
Her name means "the beautiful woman has come". Some people have taken this to mean that she had to come from somewhere, and thus she had to be a foreigner.

Tey, wife of Aye, was Nefertiti's wet-nurse. This seems to indicate that Nefertiti was of Egyptian origin.

According to Tyldesley Tey's titles include: "Favourite of the Good God, Nurse of the King's Great Wife Nefertiti, Nurse of the goddess, Ornament of the King"
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anneke
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neferititi marries Amenhotep III/Akhenaten fairly soon after he takes the throne.

There is a woman mentioned in the Amarna reliefs by the name of Mutnodjmet. She is given the title "Queen's Sister". It is not certain of this meant sister, half-sister or even foster-sister.

It is interesting to note that Nefertiti never claimed to be a "King's Daughter". This implies she was not a member of the immediate royal family.

It's also interesting that Akhenaten did not seem to have married any of his sisters as is common among royalty.
To my knowledge there is no evidence that he ever married Sitamen, Henut-taneb, Isis or Nebetah. Then again these women may have just disappeared into the harem.

Nefertiti had 6 daughters with Akhenaten. There's Meritaten, Meketaten, Ankhesenpaaten, Neferneferuaten, Neferneferure, and Setepenre.

It seems to have been rare in the 18th dynasty to show the sons. Is it possible that Nefertiti also had sons? Akhenaten reigned for some 17/18 years. We have definite evidence that Neferititi was there for at least 12 of those years and maybe more. So there would be room for an occasional son in between the girls.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



This image was taken from the touregypt website, but shows up on different locations on the internet.

Note how Nefertiti is shown slaying a captive. I believe that it is very rare for a Queen to be shown in this fashion.

It also looks to me like these are some large objects with her image on the boat. They depict Nefertiti in her famous Blue crown, but in this case there are feathers attached to the top of this crown.
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LMiss_Sunshine
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well he may have married her instead of one of his sisters because of love.

The other thing is that, did dhe have the same beliefs about the Aten as he did when they met or after marriage? If it was before then that could have been another factor that drew him to her.

I thought I'd just add a random comment there.

What you've posted is interesting.

Maybe Nefertiti was an Egyptian commoner! Maybe she was Egyptian but can from a middle-classed family? Think
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LMiss_Sunshine
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oooh dear! Sorry about the spelling there.
Slip of the keyboard! I bashed the wrong keys there! Laughing
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LMiss_Sunshine
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe I'm tired!

Actually I think I'v spent too much time on the computer! Shame on you
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anneke
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nefertiti held the title of Hereditary Princess, so she was at the very least of noble descent.

Maybe a King was allowed to add someone to the harem out of love, but I seriously doubt that he would be allowed to make just anyone Great Royal Wife. Too may ceremonies needed to be performed by that lady to have an untrained 'nobody' step into that position.
Plus I think there's some evidence that the wives did take part in some of the royal correspondence. Again, I think someone of the right background would be wanted for that.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LMiss_Sunshine wrote:

The other thing is that, did dhe have the same beliefs about the Aten as he did when they met or after marriage? If it was before then that could have been another factor that drew him to her.


I don't know when they married though. The Aten had been around for a while. His mother had a boat called "the Aten Gleams".

If anything I would look towards his tutors to see if they encouraged him in his believes. (Probably did.)

I wonder how much of the movement was political instead of religious. This was a great way to get rid of some of the powerful priestly caste.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I wonder how much of the movement was political instead of religious. This was a great way to get rid of some of the powerful priestly caste.


Too true. Could be.

Quote:
I seriously doubt that he would be allowed to make just anyone Great Royal Wife. Too may ceremonies needed to be performed by that lady to have an untrained 'nobody' step into that position.


I just thought that perhaps her identity was hidden in those days as well, beccause of her background. If she wasn't a princess then perhaps she was a "normal" person. Could it be a possibility?

Quote:
Plus I think there's some evidence that the wives did take part in some of the royal correspondence. Again, I think someone of the right background would be wanted for that.


That is also a possibility.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
Nefertiti held the title of Hereditary Princess, so she was at the very least of noble descent.


Though indeed not necessarily royal noble descent.

annie wrote:
Plus I think there's some evidence that the wives did take part in some of the royal correspondence. Again, I think someone of the right background would be wanted for that.


Actually, only Anchesenamon, Tut's wife, is noted having written to a foreign lord. Nefertiti never (I repeat: never!) comes forth in the letters we know of (I repeat, that we know of Smile ). I think a queen was more important to/for internal affairs anyway. This would still take someone with a decent descent, I agree.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree there's no evidence that Nefertiti was royal before her marriage. Her titles seem to indicate she was no commoner either though.

Nefertiti was not mentioned in any of the correspondence.
I wasn't referring to her when I wrote that. Tiye was specifically addressed, and so was Nefertari (much later).

I don't know if this was an exception or more the rule.

From the inscriptions it seems that the Great Royal Wife had duties. Well, besides pruding Great Royal Babies that is.
There are temple services and such that she participated in. A women of high noble birth seems to have had at least some training for that (as all the songstresses and dancers in the temple seem to be of high birth).
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahhh, my poor conspiricy theory is oblitorated. Crying or Very sad
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, lass, I just don't think women of low descent ever got to such high offices.
I don't like repeating myself, but I'm quite fond at the 'money seeks money'.

Does anyone know of a genuine basse-classe woman to rise to high prominence? Like a vizier's wife (if we know any), general's wife, queen, ... from which it's certain her parents were mere commoners?

Hard one to find out, I know.
There's always reasonable doubt.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No I haven't really heard of anything like that. Although I think there must have been some exceptions.

Then again, looking at the royal family over here, I don't think there have been any exceptions. Although "commoners" have married into royalty, the Queen's idea of "common" was Princess Diana who's dad was a Lord and owned a huge estate or even a castle.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something like that. Smile
Couldn't have put it in a better perspective.
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