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Who is Kiya?
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 7:26 pm    Post subject: Who is Kiya? Reply with quote

According to Tyldesley, Kiya was "Wife and greatly beloved of the King of Upper and Lower egypt living on Truth, Lord of the two lands Neferkheperure Waenre, the perfect child of the living Aten who shall live forever."

Kiya was never Great wife, but seemed to play an important role at court.

There are several competing theories about who she was, and where she came from.

1. She could be Princess Tadukhipa from Mitanni.
2. Not as widely believed is Aldred's suggestion that she came from the same family as Tiye (Akhenaten's mother), Aye, Yuya, Tuya. This theory is based completely on the similarity of her name to the names of people from the family mentioned.
3. There's always the "none of the above".
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anneke
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:14 pm    Post subject: Evidence from Cyril Adred's book Reply with quote

There was a temple in Akhetaten called the Maru-Aten. This temple was built for Kiya. Her image had been expunged from the monuments and replaced by the image of the eldest royal daughter Meritaten.

Aldred mentions that Kiya’s eyes had excised from the image at the Maru-Aten, as well as from blocks at Hermopolis.

Before people realized the existence of Kiya, this replacement of one woman by another had been seen as a sign of the disgrace and banishment of Neferititi. But that theory has now been shown to be incorrect.

Aldred mentions that the Egyptologist Perepelkin argued convincingly that the coffin and canopic jars from tomb 55 in the valley of the Kings had originally been inscribed for Kiya.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 8:27 pm    Post subject: Kiya and daughter? Reply with quote

Aldred mentions reliefs from Hermopolis (restored by Hanke) that show Kiya functioning in scenes from her chapels in the Great Temple of the Aten in Akhetaten. These scenes date towards the end of the reign of Akhenaten (based on the form of the name of the Aten).

Meketaten and Neferititi are absent, and this may mean that they are dead. Aldred estimates the images to date to approximately year 14 of Akhenaten.

Meritaten and Akhesenpaaten are present and are shown as adults (wearing mature style garments and coiffures is how Aldred puts it)

Kiya is shown followed by an infant. This girl is never named, but has been given the name Kiya-tasherit by some Egyptologists.

The royal princesses Meritaten and Akhesenpaaten are shown following immediately behind Akhenaten, and Meritaten in advance of Kiya. This has been interpreted as meaning that Kiya played a lesser role compared to the Royal Daughters.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was just reading "Texts from the Amarna Period in Egypt" by W.J.Murnane.

He mentions that there was a monument dedicated to Kiya in Hermopolis. Kiya's image has been systematically removed/replaced. On the monument in Hermopolis, or at least some blocks, Kiya's image has been replaced by that of Ankhesenpaaten.
The interesting part is that Kiya's daughter was relaced by Ankhesenpaaten's daughter called Ankhesenpaaten-tasherit (=junior).

In other places Kiya's name was replaced by that of Meritaten, Nefertiti's eldest daughter.
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Serenity78
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2004 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting things... you seem to dig up a lot of cool stuff. faroah

wav

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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Serenity78 wrote:
Very interesting things... you seem to dig up a lot of cool stuff. faroah


Thanks Laughing Sesen and I "keep each other updated" on the information and facts we can find.

I like seeing what has been found, and then letting my own theories loose on them Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Thanks Sesen and I "keep each other updated" on the information and facts we can find.

Laughing I think its more you finding facts, and me stretching them out into wild preposterous proportions. Laughing
Its adictive, riveting and, for my part, an absolute obsession...*gawd I sound like I need help* Shocked
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anneke
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sesen wrote:
Quote:
Thanks Sesen and I "keep each other updated" on the information and facts we can find.

Laughing I think its more you finding facts, and me stretching them out into wild preposterous proportions. Laughing
Its adictive, riveting and, for my part, an absolute obsession...*gawd I sound like I need help* Shocked


But it's oh so much fun! Laughing Laughing

If you need help so do the rest of us. Several of us may have to sign up for group therapy Laughing Laughing
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If you need help so do the rest of us. Several of us may have to sign up for group therapy Laughing Laughing Laughing

Where can I find the application forms?
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This comes from a review on the El-Amarna Royal tomb, a grave possibly cut for Akhenaten:

Quote:
The royal tomb began with similar proportions to the earlier tombs in the Valley of the Kings at Thebes. However, several chambers for subsidiary burials of members of the royal family were cut after the early death of the king’s second daughter Meketaten. Was the king ever buried here? This is a question which is impossible to answer with certainty, although fragments of Akhenaten’s sarcophagus and a great number of shabti figures belonging to the king were discovered, suggesting that the king was interred here after his death, probably in year 17 of his reign. When the tomb was first found in the 1880s by locals it was already plundered and badly damaged.


I thought that was already intresting, but here's something more, related to Kiya.

Quote:
In chamber alpha there are important scenes depicting the king and queen mourning the death of a woman on a funeral bier. Behind the royal couple a nurse carries an infant in her arms and the presence of a fan-bearer suggests that the child was also royal. The assumption is that the death represents a mother after childbirth. Although better preserved than other chambers in the royal tomb, the scenes in chamber alpha are damaged and the woman is not named, but a similar death-bed scene in chamber gamma names the deceased as Princess Meketaten. This gives rise to the idea that all three chambers belonged to the king’s second daughter, who probably died in childbirth. This assumption has been recently challenged and it is now suggested that the body represented on the walls of chamber alpha may have been another royal lady - possibly the king’s lesser wife Kiya, who is a candidate for the mother of Tutankhamun, or even another daughter. Details of the reliefs in these chambers were copied by French epigraphists in 1894 at a time when the scenes were still almost complete, and without these drawings we would know even less than we do about the mysterious occupant of these apartments.


So, what it says, comes down to this: there's a probability Kiya died during labour, giving birth to a child of royal descent. It is not stated whether the child survived (for long) though. This child however, can hardly have been Tutankhamen, since Kiya was still depicted and named as the young king's "nurse" at his tomb, reason why we know of her existence in the first place. The presence of the royal couple though strikes me. If this is indeed Kiya, not much stands in the way of the theory of her, being a secundary wife to Akhenaten. Maybe the child that cost her life, was a brother or sister for Tutankhamen then. But what to make of the other possibility, the body being that of one of Nefertiti's daughters? Do u guys know of any of the sisters of Anchesenpa-Aten, dying from labour?
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Segereh wrote:
This child however, can hardly have been Tutankhamen, since Kiya was still depicted and named as the young king's "nurse" at his tomb, reason why we know of her existence in the first place.


I meant that Kiya must have been alive during tut's youth, else she wouldn't have been able to have nursed him. If it's really her, Tut may have had (a) siblin(s): nice thought.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Segereh wrote:
This child however, can hardly have been Tutankhamen, since Kiya was still depicted and named as the young king's "nurse" at his tomb, reason why we know of her existence in the first place.


I don't think Kiya was ever depicted as his nurse in Tut's tomb.
The only depictions of Kiya that I know of are from a temple in Heliopolis. These are the famous "recut" scenes. Kiya has not been known for very long. Her existence was discovered in the latter half of the 20th century I believe. Tut's tomb was discovered in the very early parts of the 20th century.

Tut's wet nurse is named Maia, and her tomb was discovered in 1997 (or 1998) by Alain Zivie in Saqqara.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



"Despite the intimate scenes of Akhenaten and Nefertiti with their children suggesting a very close family relationship, a relief in the tomb of Ay at Amarna suggests that Akhenaten did have other secondary wives apart from Kiya, there is another name - Ipy 'a Royal Ornament','A True Favourite of the King'. But Kiya was certainly the most important of these 'second' wives, apart from her funerary furniture she also had a sunshade temple in the Maru-aten and chapels for her cult near the entrance to the Great Temple at Akhetaten.

If Akhenaten was the father of Tutankhamun (and possibly Smenkhkare also) then Kiya remains the most probable choice of mother. As stated above (...) it is thought that Kiya did have a daughter by Akhenaten and possibly one or two sons, if she did give Akhenaten a son then this could explain her titles of 'the favourite' and 'Greatly Beloved Wife'.

Scholars have also looked to the Funeral scene in the Royal Tomb at Amarna, this does show a woman holding a baby in her arms being shielded by the sun by a fan - which does indicate a royal personage - it is still a matter of contention as to whether the woman and child is Kiya and a very young Tutankhamun or a nurse and the baby of Maketaten."

< http://members.tripod.com/~ib205/kiya.html

I was wrong, there is no mention in Tutankhamens tomb of Kiya, I thought I had read that in (what's his name...) a very decent work on the king's grave. This could mean she was not his mother, but I don't recollect his father being mentioned there as well Smile Maybe being the wife of Akhenaten, she suffered his fate in getting rid of everything mentioning her.
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
There was a temple in Akhetaten called the Maru-Aten. This temple was built for Kiya. Her image had been expunged from the monuments and replaced by the image of the eldest royal daughter Meritaten. Aldred mentions that Kiya’s eyes had excised from the image at the Maru-Aten, as well as from blocks at Hermopolis.


See picture above, first time I've seen that ('cutting out eyes'). Wasn't KV55 the presumed tomb of Smenchie? (~ canopic jars and coffin) I'm not fond of far-fetched theories and genealogies as u know (though I'm very interested in it), but I'm not eager to dismiss Kiya's influence or at least her part in the successions between Akhenaten, Smenchkare and Tutankhamen either.

My appologies for the bad info on Kiya being mentioned in Tut's tomb. By now I should know better than to state for a fact what I think I might remember what I once read Confused
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2004 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yeah, thx for telling me how to include pictures Wink
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