Go to the Egyptian Dreams shop
Egyptian Dreams
Ancient Egypt Discussion Board
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Atenism and the Afterlife
Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 13, 14, 15  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Evidence from Amarna
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ImageOfAten
Priest
Priest


Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 604
Location: Horizon of the Aten

PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:27 pm    Post subject: Atenism and the Afterlife Reply with quote

I have heard people claim many times that Atenism had absolutely nothing to offer on the concept of death and afterlife however, I have read many different writings concerning the subject which were found inside tombs of the Amarna period that all point to the same general idea. Here is one for example:

"May thou breathe the sweet breeze of the north wind and go forth into the sky on the arms of the living Aten, your limbs protected and your heart content. No evil can affect your limbs, you remain whole and your body will never putrefy as you follow the Aten as he rises at daybreak."
_________________
"You made heaven far away just to rise in it, to see all you make, Being unique and risen in your aspects of being as 'living Aten' manifest, shining, far yet near".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
VBadJuJu
Priest
Priest


Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Posts: 733

PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Atenism and the Afterlife Reply with quote

ImageOfAten wrote:
I have heard people claim many times that Atenism had absolutely nothing to offer on the concept of death and afterlife however, I have read many different writings concerning the subject which were found inside tombs of the Amarna period that all point to the same general idea. Here is one for example:

"May thou breathe the sweet breeze of the north wind and go forth into the sky on the arms of the living Aten, your limbs protected and your heart content. No evil can affect your limbs, you remain whole and your body will never putrefy as you follow the Aten as he rises at daybreak."


I dunno about "absolutely nothing" but it sure seemed to pale in comparison to the standard orthodoxy. It also seemed to lack colorful myths as to creation adn the like - the Aten just was and didnt need explaining.

I am not sure of the context of the tomb inscription/prayer. The ones I have seen, the person doesnt (and cant) beseech the Aten directly - for only AKhenaten can know the Aten. So they have to 'beg' Akhenaten and in some cases Nefertiti to intervene with Aten on their behalf. I cant find an example to post.

For the people, Akhenaten seemed to be the focal point, not Aten. Your quote might be of this type as it seems not to be _TO_ Aten, but someone else ("as you follow the Aten as he..."). It might be a benediction for the dead or but could actually be to Akhenaten. Hard to tell without more of it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ImageOfAten
Priest
Priest


Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 604
Location: Horizon of the Aten

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's just it! It was intended to lack colorful myths. Atenism was based on the realities of everyday life not creative manifestations of the mind.
Akheneten was the one who had direct contact with Aten because he was a god himself. Also, he probably did not want to let many people "know" the Aten in the same way that he did because he was son of the aten. He probably also knew that a lot of his followers were not truely devoted to him and his teachings, some of them were just playing loyal to receive the king's affection and valuable gifts.

As mentioned "The Aten just was and did not need explaining" I totally agree with this. Why should the god need any explanation? The Aten brilliantly existed high in the sky way before the civilization of man came into existance. Akhenaten came along and recognized how life and beauty could never exist without the Aten, and he did everything he could to promote what he knew and wanted all to know. His people did not Want to accept it or understand it. It is all pretty easy to understand. Here we are about 3,300 years later (with that same beautiful disk in the sky illuminating the world and allowing beauty) and some researchers still do not want to accept Atenism for what it really is.
_________________
"You made heaven far away just to rise in it, to see all you make, Being unique and risen in your aspects of being as 'living Aten' manifest, shining, far yet near".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
VBadJuJu
Priest
Priest


Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Posts: 733

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ImageOfAten wrote:
Atenism was based on the realities of everyday life not creative manifestations of the mind.
Akheneten was the one who had direct contact with Aten because he was a god himself.


Ummmm. You do know that the sun is not a god right? Just a star, a fairly ordinary spectral Class G, main sequence star merrily fusing Hydrogen into Helium at a rate of about 600 million tons/second.

Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ImageOfAten
Priest
Priest


Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 604
Location: Horizon of the Aten

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If fire is considered to be a living thing why can't the sun be? Plus without Sunlight nothing on this planet would be able to survive (besides maybe a few deep water fish).
_________________
"You made heaven far away just to rise in it, to see all you make, Being unique and risen in your aspects of being as 'living Aten' manifest, shining, far yet near".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
VBadJuJu
Priest
Priest


Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Posts: 733

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ImageOfAten wrote:
If fire is considered to be a living thing why can't the sun be?


Whoa! I guess that makes firemen serial killers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Claire
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 213
Location: England

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Confused I thought that during the amarna period the only path to the afterlife was through akhenaten and the royal family as they were the only ones who 'communicated' with it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
ImageOfAten
Priest
Priest


Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 604
Location: Horizon of the Aten

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VBadJuJu wrote:
ImageOfAten wrote:
If fire is considered to be a living thing why can't the sun be?


Whoa! I guess that makes firemen serial killers.


Hahaha it could, it all depends on how you look at things
_________________
"You made heaven far away just to rise in it, to see all you make, Being unique and risen in your aspects of being as 'living Aten' manifest, shining, far yet near".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ImageOfAten
Priest
Priest


Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 604
Location: Horizon of the Aten

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Claire wrote:
Confused I thought that during the amarna period the only path to the afterlife was through akhenaten and the royal family as they were the only ones who 'communicated' with it.


You are correct. Why should it be any other way if Akhenaten was the son of Aten?
_________________
"You made heaven far away just to rise in it, to see all you make, Being unique and risen in your aspects of being as 'living Aten' manifest, shining, far yet near".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Claire
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 213
Location: England

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes but he should have known that his religion lacked what it had in the first place, a personal aspect to it in which an ordinary egyptian could feel they could relate to a god, make it there own in a way, instead of taking their old religion and replacing it with a god that didn't really have anything to do with them at all, as for him being called the son of the aten, well, other pharoahs were called the son of ra, but the egyptians still had that personal connection which akhenaten in my opinion should have allowed the egyptians to have with his god the aten, which i think would have made his new religion alot more successful in my opinion!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger
maahes
Account Suspended


Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 231
Location: Sepat Pa Maahes

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:20 pm    Post subject: perception Reply with quote

Perhaps taking fragmented bits of history too literally results in clouded perspective?

For example, how woudl an early scholar put his mark on some original thought or invention?

What if Akhenaten discovered a form of the camera obscura, sitting out the heat of the sun within the windowless inner sanctuary of some temple of Amen? His Atenism is the root of Amenism. Its no religion so much as a natural philosophy. It freed the slaves of the soil from laboring under the willfuly guile of those that would keep the peasant pious and ignorant.
It claimed that as Amen is all the cognizance of light the awareness of tranformation the energy of renewal the enlightened are like the lotus itself they open into the world with a fantastically geometric open slate.

I don't read that Akhenaten's philosophy failed insomuch as the populace was poorly prepared for his genius. I wouldnt deify him or make him out to be some sort of hero. He obvsiously had some strange traits.
But within the context of becoming life there is alot of room for mistakes
_________________
"O Egypt, Egypt, of your reverent deeds only stories will survive, and they will be incredible to your children! For divinity goes back to heaven, as Egypt will be widowed and deserted by god and nature."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ImageOfAten
Priest
Priest


Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 604
Location: Horizon of the Aten

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do consider him to be a genius, and his accomplishments successful. He was truely devoted to everything he did but the most of the rest of Egypt was not. It would have been great to live back then! Strange traits? I've never really noticed anything I consider to be strange, but that's only my view on the matter.
_________________
"You made heaven far away just to rise in it, to see all you make, Being unique and risen in your aspects of being as 'living Aten' manifest, shining, far yet near".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
VBadJuJu
Priest
Priest


Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Posts: 733

PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Claire wrote:
Yes but he should have known that his religion lacked what it had in the first place, a personal aspect to it in which an ordinary egyptian could feel they could relate to a god, make it there own in a way, instead of taking their old religion and replacing it with a god that didn't really have anything to do with them at all,


At least one scholar has suggested that Atenism was an attempt at Totalitarian rule. By banishing the other gods, and making himself the sole source for Aten's teachngs (which he never shared) Akhenaten was just trying to exert more control over everyone.

I think that might be a little much, but I think a good case can be made for some sort of pschological imbalance in which Akhenaten had to be the focal point at all times. What better way to do so than to have ALL the secret knowledge for the one true god and the sole person who can intercede on your behalf.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anneke
Queen of Egypt
Queen of Egypt


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 9305

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Considering Akhenaten's supposed different views of death and the afterlife I think it's interesting he still had his daughter Meketaten and his mother mummified. This still alludes to the whole Osiris mythology I think.

I don't remember what was written on their sarcophagi, and there may have been some changes, but not as many as we might expect?

It always seemed to me that when push came to shove and a death ocurred, that not too much changed. Or am I missing something here? Very Happy
_________________
Math and Art: http://mathematicsaroundus.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I don't remember what was written on their sarcophagi, and there may have been some changes, but not as many as we might expect?


The overall schemes of Amarna sarcophagi remained the same, but there were siginificant changes in the decorations. For instance, on Akhenaten's sarcophagus, instead of the usual four protective deities stationed at the corners, Nefertiti was carved there (on all four corners). And gone were representations of the Sons of Horus and Anubis and Osiris and the other traditional funerary deities, to be replaced by inscriptions and reliefs related to the exulted Sun Disk.
_________________


Visit my blog!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Evidence from Amarna All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 13, 14, 15  Next
Page 1 of 15

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group