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Tuya: more than just Yuya's wife
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Sesen
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:36 pm    Post subject: Tuya: more than just Yuya's wife Reply with quote

Tuya, we know of her a wife and mother, but she was also somebody's daughter. Is there any evidence of who her parents may have been, and the meaning of her name?
Clues as to where she came from?
She was buried with her husband in KV46, due to different embalming techniques they are thought to have died at different times, so who died first?
The tomb still contained the burial furnature - but was undecorated, not smoothed or plastered. Are there clues from the burial items that may tell of her origins?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yuya and Tuya were buried in the Valley of the Kings in tomb KV46.

From Dennis Forbes’s Tombs, Treasures and Mummies
and Amarna Letters, Vol I published by KMT communications in 1991

Among the grave goods were several gifts from Amenhotep III and Tiye (who was their daughter).
There were also some items that were gifts from Princess/QueenSitamen, the daughter/wife of Amenhotep and Tiye. On one of the chairs Sitamen’s name is written in a cartouche. Her name is also written in a cartouche on a blue-faiance kohl-tube.
Sitamen did not become Queen until the 31st year of Amenhotep’s reign.
This means that the longest surviving of the couple (usually thought to be the wife Tuya) must have lived well into the third decade of Amenhotep’s reign.

If there was a co-regency between Amenhotep III and Akhenaten, then this would mean that at least one of the maternal grand-parents of Akhenaten lived to see him become co-regent and marry Nefertiti.

I find it interesting that there are no gifts from any other relatives. None from Anen. He is the son of Yuya and Tuya.
The prevailing theory seems to be that Aye was also a son of Yuya and Tuya, but no gifts show up among the grave goods that can be attributed to him.
None of their other gran-daughters (Isis, Hennutawy, Nebbetawy etc) are represented either.


I also found it interesting that there is no mention of the Aten anywhere! The Aten was already present at court. (Tiye’s boat “the Aten Gleams” for instance).

Tuya was estimated to be in her 60’s when she died. This means that she must have been born roughly during the reign of Amenhotep II.

Tuya’s titles include:
Royal Ornament (i.e. Lady in Waiting)
Superior of Amen’s Harem
Dresser to the King (i.e. mistress of the robes)
Chantress of Amen
Lady of the Harem of Min
Mother of the Chief wife of the King

The title of royal ornament means that she served the Queen as a “Lady in Waiting”. In this case I presume that that means she served Queen Mutemwiya.
Although it is of course possible that she served her own daughter.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2004 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Among the grave goods were several gifts from Amenhotep III and Tiye (who was their daughter).
There were also some items that were gifts from Princess/QueenSitamen, the daughter/wife of Amenhotep and Tiye. On one of the chairs Sitamen’s name is written in a cartouche. Her name is also written in a cartouche on a blue-faiance kohl-tube.



Oh so Dennis Forbes has the kohl tube belonging to Sitamun II, daughter of Tiye and Amenhotep III, not Sitamun - young half sister/wife of Amenhotep III.
Thats interesting, as I've read that it was sister Sitamun who had left personal items in her tomb, and it was thought that this indicated that Tuya had some role in the upbringing of the young Amenhotep and his sister.
I wonder why too, that there were no other family items left in the tomb. Its a shame that the tomb was not decorated, it may have given us more family information.
No mention of Aten - not too much of a surprise even though he was gaining momentum. The titles of both Yuya and Tuya show where their allegiance lay.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr (Dr.?) Forbes said that Sitamun is almost universally seen as the daughter of Amenhotep and Tiye. There was one voice of dissent.

Now just because everyone agrees, doesn't mean they are automatically correct.....

Usually the marriage of Amenhotep to Sitamen is thought to have occurred in year 31. I don't know where they get this date from, but IF that's true then it seems that Sitamen the daughter makes more sense than Sitamen the sister.

If Sitamen was his sister, then her mother was most likely Queen Yaret.

On one of the chairs from the tomb KV 46 Sitamen is shown before Queen Tiye. Behand Queen Tiye stands another royal princess.
The article describes the scene as Sitamen standing before her mother. I don't know if the inscriptions literally say that, or if that's just an interpretation based on assumptions.

I do believe that Amenhotep son of Huy was the Steward for Queen Sitamen. She had her own apartments in the palace of Malkata. I do think that his tomb has been found. It would be interesting if the inscriptions there shed any light on the situation.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder if it as all possible that Sitamun was adopted by Tiye, a young sister or half sister of Amenhotep III. There's no evidence of this, and only speculation, mainly from the 'bible in egypt brigade'. I think I'll leave it and wait for some more information from excavations.

Quote:
I do believe that Amenhotep son of Huy was the Steward for Queen Sitamen

This would be the son of the Huy who was the 'Steward for the Great Royal Wife Tiye' ?
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just realized that I got the name "slightly wrong" (oops)

Sitamen's Steward was called Amenhotep son of HAPU.

Aldred (Akhenaten, King of Egypt) states that Amenhotep son of Hapu was related to Ramose, southern vizier and Mayor of Thebes, as well as to Amenhotep, the High Steward of Amenhotep III in Memphis.
He is credited with the construction of the Colossi of Memnon.

He was appointed High Steward of the estates of the King's eldest daughter Sitamen. Aldred says that Sitamen may have filled the role of God's Wife of Amen.

Sitamen must have been an important person to have someone of the stature of Amenhotep son of Hapu assigned as her High Steward. The man was deified after his death!
I wonder if the connection between Sitamen and Thuya comes from Sitamen's position as God's Wife of Amen? Tuya was superior of the Harem of Amen, and thus one of the highest ranking officials associated with the God's Wife.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sesen

You probably know this already, but I looked up some info on the God's Wife of Amen in Aldred's book.

Ahmose-Nefertari was the first Queen in the 18th dynasty to hold the position of God's Wife of Amen. There is a donation stela that shows the foundation of the Harim of Amen. The stela records a contract largely concerned with the compensation to be payed to the Queen for surrendering her office as Second Prophet of Amen. At the time this office seems to have been passed on to her young son Ahmose.
Note that during Amenhotep III's reign this position of Second Prophet of Amen was held by Anen, Queen Tiye's brother!

Queen Ahmose-Nefertari receives a treasure of gold, silver and copper, clothing and unguents. In addition she receives a supply of corn, and an estateand the labour to develop it. Her brother is to serve her, evidently as High Steward.
The Queen thereafter has the power of transmitting the office of God's wife and all the goods and services appertaining to her heirs for perpetuity.

(I don't know if the last sentence is part of the text on the stela, or if this is a conclusion Aldred drew.)


But the upshot is that Tiye was highly involved in the worship of Ahmose -Nefertari. Her daughter may have become God's Wife.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just noticed that the Second Prophet of Amen under Ay was a nephew of Aye's wife Tey.

Tey is another enigma. She is clearly very important. She was the nurse of Nefertiti. She is the only woman prominently displayed in the noble's tombs in Amarna (Mainly in that of Aye of course).

She was nurse to Nefertiti. Nefertiti is labeled "Heiress". Mutnodjemet is given the title of "Queen's Sister" at Amarna. Horemheb's Queen is usually identified with the Mudnodjemet from Amarna. Mutnodjemet was also named "Heiress", and she was a "Songstress of Amen". Did Mutnodjemet ever take the title of God's Wife?

I think at this point that Nefertiti and Mutnodjemet were children from "The Harem of Amen". This institution is associated with the cult of Ahmose Nefertari, and I think women from that background were considered acceptable for the role of Queen.

I don't believe (but that's just my opinion) that the King needed to marry the Heiress to legitimate his position on the throne. I wonder if it had more to do with the roles that the great wife played. She took part in many rituals and had to know her way around the religious rites. I wonder if a Queen was expected to have some training for that.

I wish I knew more about the "Harem of Amen". There were priestesses and ladies with the title of divine votaress. I don't know what that means, but it seemed to be a prestigious position.

I am curious as to what happened to the "Harem of Amen" under Akhenaten. He would not have allowed Amen to have been worshipped. Nefertiti never became God's Wife of Amen (obviously). But she seems to have played a similar role in the religious rites.

I am curious if Tey, Aye's wife, was part of the Harem of Amen during the later years of Amenhotep III's reign.
She was always depicted as the only Queen to Aye. Aye may have married Ankhesenamen, but Teye is always depicted as Queen on the monuments and in Aye's tomb(s).
Was Tey considered an "heiress" herself? Did she have the right connections and training?
It is sometimes claimed that Aye married Ankhesenamen to consolidate his position as King. Wouldn't he have shown her off everywhere? Even posthumously if she died? Was maybe Tey important enough in her own right to become Queen? I'm totally guessing here. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aldred claims that Tiye is a pet name for Nefertari. Tey and Teye are just variants of Tiye.
Tuyu is a contraction of Ahhotep.

He goes on to note that Sitamen was a name shared by a daughter of Ahmose-Nefertari, the daughter of Amenhotep II, and the daughter of Amenhotep III and Tiye. (He clearly sees Sitamen as the daughter of Tiye)

It is interesting that the names of grandmother-mother-daughter Ahhotep - Nefertari - Sitamen are repeated in slightly alternate form in Tuyu - Tiye - Sitamen.
And all are involved with God's Wife of Amen, and it's associated Harem of Amen.....

(Aldred also mentions that Huy is short for Amenhotep)
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2004 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On Amenhotep son of hapu : this link shows a fragment of his (outer) granite sarcophagus

http://www.digitalegypt.ucl.ac.uk/thebes/tombs/amenhotep.html

The title Gods Wife is an interesting one according to this site
http://www.philae.nu/akhet/GodsWife.html during the 18th Dynasty the last know holder of this title was Tiaa, with Mutemwia still inconclusive. During Amenhotep III's reign, Gods Wife seemed to become the domain of a collateral line of the royal family or the priesthood.
Interesting that Aldred considers the possibility of Sitamun being a Gods Wife, does he give any evidence?
I would have expected considering the importance of the title, at least in the earlier part of the dynasty, that had Sitamun or Mutnodjemet held it, it would have been part of their titulary.
At least in the case of Mutnodjemet listing the title 'Songstress of Amun', there are other noble women (not of known royal bloodlines) such as Meryt (wife of Maya) and Iuy (wife of Iniuia) who also carry the title 'Songstress of Amun'. These women are married to very powerful men, but not royalty. It would appear to me that this title would carry less status than Gods Wife.
There seems to be many powerful titles and I've not really looked into them - I'm so easily side tracked..lol...and I'm really trying to find more on our family from Akhmin. Then again the titles are important as they sometimes show a hint of a matrilinear line of descent.

Quote:
Note that during Amenhotep III's reign this position of Second Prophet of Amen was held by Anen, Queen Tiye's brother

Yes, that seems a good indication of the prestige that title held.


Quote:
Tuyu is a contraction of Ahhotep.

Thankyou for posting that and on the other names! Very Happy Huy short for Amenhotep - I didn't know that one! I find the meanings and varients of the names really fascinating - a little insight as to what god was important to them or their mother.

One last thing in Alberto Siliotti's book Guide to the Valley of the Kings, he examines the tomb of Sennefer - mayor of the southern city, during the reign of Amenhotep II. He states that he and his wife Merit have two daughters - Mutnofret and Tuya. Tuya plays an important role in one wall decoration, by leading a procession of priests and handing her father a amulet with a little heart of lapis lazuli.
I just liked the mention of yet another Tuya and Mutnofret. Then since its connected to the name Ahhotep it may well be quite common.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Huy short for Amenhotep


Amenhotep son of Hapu was sometimes called Huy. That's hhow I got that one.

In Martin's book about the tombs in Memphis he lists the tomb of Raia. There are three different Raias, and this one is a (blind) musician. His wife is called Mutnofret, and there is a copy of an inscription showing female relatives. It wasn't translated, but from what I could make out one had a name sounding like "Aia" and another had a name like "Y" (just 2 feathers made up her name I think). But I don't read hieroglyphics very well at all so that could be my mistake.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From a website I got:
Quote:
Tomb of Raia

Raia's small burial monument was also discovered in 1980 and adjoins the southern wall of Paser's court. Raia held the title of 'Chief of Singers' in the Memphite Temple of Ptah and was probably a contemporary of Paser. Although the tomb-chapel is tiny - consisting of only a single chamber with two pillars - its well-preserved decoration in almost complete form has proved extremely informative. An exquisite inlay of a human face was found with other funerary furnishings in the burial shaft of Raia's tomb.


I saw a photo of the inlayed face. It really strongly reminded me of the Amarna Princesses! Same kind of facial shape, and pointy chin.
Could just be an artistic style, but it looked interesting.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tuya's name is sometimes written as "Tjuia"

Here's mention of a statue:
Tjuia Tj3, nude, dedicated by father Harhotep rw-tp, steatite, probably Dyn. XVIII, formerly in F. G. Hilton Price and W. R. Hearst collns. and at Sotheby's in 1911 and 1939.

I can't find anything about Harhotep. There's a 11th dynasty person, but this statue does come from the eighteenth dynasty.

I don't know what Harhotep would mean either. Hor-hotep makes more sense, and seems to be a possible transliteration.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goodness, I wonder if it is the 18th Dynasty Tuya or the 19th, would there be much difference I wonder. Maybe the mysterious father of Tuya?
Harhotep - so that would mean something along the lines of Hor/us is pleased?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't quite know where to post this one Very Happy
But this person seems to be related to Tuya, so here we go:




from: http://inicia.es/de/alex_herrero_pardo/Taemwadjsy_Huy.htm

(My translation - with help from google translation)


A vase in the tomb of Yuya and Tuya has the inscription “Superior of the Harem of Amón, Taemwadjsy. She was the successor of Tuya in that position and more likely a descendant of hers, through the Second Prophet of Amón, Anen (son of Yuya and Tuya).

the text on the vase: "the venerated one near Osiris, the Superior of the Harem of Amón, Taemwadjsy".

Amenhotep, called Huy, was Viceroy of Kush during the reign of Tutankhamen. Huy’s wife was Taemwadjsy, with the titles of Superior of the Harem of Amón and the Harem of Nebkheperure (Tutankhamon), that resides in Sehetep-Netjeru (Faras).

The titles of Huy give us a good idea of his importance:
Write of the Correspondence,
Messenger of the king in all the Foreign Countries,
Father of the God,
Carrier of the Fan to the right of the king,
Supervisor(?) of the cattle of Amón in the Country of Kush,
Supervisor(?) of the countries of gold of the Gentleman of Two Earth,
Brave of his Majesty in the cavalry
Son of King de Kush.

One of the children of Huy with Taemwadjsy was called Paser. Paser also became Viceroy of Kush.
In the tomb of Huy, Paser already takes the titles of
Head of the stables,
Carrier of the Fan
Head of the horses.

Later, after the death of Huy, Taemwadjsy would marry with the Head of the Archers(?) of Kush and Fan Bearer, Khaemweset.
A statue exists in which they appear together Taemwadjsy, her son Paser and Khaemweset.
Also, a son of Paser, called Amenemipet, would ultimately become Viceroy of Kush.
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