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Tuya: more than just Yuya's wife
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anneke
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...and the plot thickens:

Quote:
Later, after the death of Huy, Taemwadjsy would marry with the Head of the Archers(?) of Kush and Fan Bearer, Khaemweset.
A statue exists in which they appear together Taemwadjsy, her son Paser and Khaemweset.


Khaemweset's brother was called Sety, and yes, he's the father of Paramessu, the man better known as Ramses I.

So Taemwadsji, the possible grand-daughter of Yuya and Tuya was the aunt of Ramses I.

I think they were keeping it "in the family". It's just a very extended family Laughing Laughing
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Sesen
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is really fascinating stuff! I wonder where Huy comes from, could he be of the same family, his titles show him to be a powerful fellow. 'Father of the God' crops up again. These ones 'Messenger of the King in all foreign countries', 'Writer of Correspondence' ....must make him a speaker/writer of Akkadian.
'Son of the King of Kush' is interesting. Is he a royal prince, one suitable as a husband for a woman of such high rank?
Paser carries on the 'Horse' tradition

There is another earlier Amenhotep Huy:
Amenhotep Huy
Wife Ourly
Native of Bahariya Oasis (western desert includes Valley of the Golden Mummies). Site of the tomb of Amenhotep Huy
TITLE: Govener of the Northern Oasis

Probably appointed in accordance with a decree of Thutmose III.

Tomb is well cut uniquely decorated, was a powerful rich man
Husband and wife shown in a relief worshipping Min – Osiris and Khonsu – Hathor and Anubis.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure where this Amenhotep/Huy is from. His tomb has been discovered. I believe it is in Thebes, and it's known for decorations depicting the tribute from Kush.
I believe that King's son of Kush is just a title meaning Viceroy of Kush. It was a very important position, but does not neccessarily mean that the person was literally related to the King. I will have to look it up, but I do believe he came from a powerful family (But I don't think he's part of the "Akhmin Family", unless it's quite distant).


I have come across the title God's Father several times now. I will have to see if I can find the quotes, but it made me wonder (and doubt) in some of those cases if it really could mean "Father-in'Law" of the King. Amenhotep/Huy was definitely not the father of Ankhesenamen, and he was listed as God's Father. Unless a daughter of his entered the royal harem he's not Tut's father-in-law. And I can't imagine every father of a haremlady getting that title! And there is no known second great wife of Tutankhamen.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a very nice description of Amenhotep/Huy's tomb.

http://www.osirisnet.net/tombes/nobles/houy/e_houy.htm

The photos of the wallpaintings are worth looking at.
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Sesen
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure you will already know this but just in case: Khaemweset, brother of Sety, has a later namesake. Khaemweset is also the name of the 4th son of Ramses II. He was a priest of Ptah whose mummy has been found near the Serapeum.

Quote:
I believe that King's son of Kush is just a title meaning Viceroy of Kush.

A-ha.
This title Divine Father is another abstruse one: Yuya, Ay and Anen carried it, and now Amenhotep Huy. It must mean something more than simply Father in law. Could it be that they were a older male who played a part in raising a young future king. Yuya - Amenhotep III, Anen: Akhenaten,
Ay - Tutankamun..... then what about Amenhotep Huy - Smenkhare.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2004 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
This title Divine Father is another abstruse one: Yuya, Ay and Anen carried it, and now Amenhotep Huy. It must mean something more than simply Father in law. Could it be that they were a older male who played a part in raising a young future king. Yuya - Amenhotep III, Anen: Akhenaten,
Ay - Tutankamun..... then what about Amenhotep Huy - Smenkhare.


I had wondered the same thing.
The King / Crown Prince had to learn "stateman-ship" somehwere. They had to have had some specific training on how to conduct certain ceremonies, basically how to rule. I had wondered if that was the role of God's Father (Divine Father).
It does seem to indicate a "fatherly" role. But that could be as teacher.

I did read somewhere it was a Priestly position. Not like High Priest or anything like that.

I wonder if it means something like Priest-Tutor???
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Sesen
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I wonder if it means something like Priest-Tutor???

Yes thats what I'm thinking too. Fathers would have taught their sons skills and a trade, only for a future king it needed to be so very much more.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The King was (at least nominally) high priest of all the gods.
I wonder how many rites he had to perform, and how complicated they were.

He would probably have other priests perform the more complicated rites for him, but he would definitely need to know his way around the temple.

Besides that, he would have to be well versed in diplomacy, foreign relations, understand war-fare, etc.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm more and more curious about Taemwadjsy.
She became superior of the harem of Amen after Tuya, and there is speculation that she was related to Tuya (maybe via Anen?).

Her name is rather peculiar. Is it Ta-em-wadjsy? And is wadjsy just another transliteration of Wadjet? This would make her name mean some thing like "daughter of Wadjet".
Isn't that rather a strange name if she is meant to be part of the Akhmin family? There is no direct evidence that links her to the other Akhminians besides her position as superior of the harem of Amen.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2004 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked around on the internet, and I remembered correctly that Wadjet was the Cobra godess.
What I didn't know was that Wadjet was sometimes identified with Isis. Wadjet was also known as "The protector of Horus".

This connection with Isis is interesting, because the High Priest Nakhtmin did have a daughter called Isis.

Long shot? Yup!
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Sesen
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Isn't that rather a strange name if she is meant to be part of the Akhmin family?

It could be that if she is related to Anen, who was also Sem Priest of Annu, seat of worship for Re, she may have connections to this part of Lower Egypt. The seat of worship for Wadjet is Buto or Per Wadjet (House of Wadjet) in the Delta. As the royal cobra/uraeus she is the 'fiery eye of Re' she protects the Horus king by spitting fire onto approaching enemies.
That was good deduction detective, regarding her name Very Happy

http://www.louvre.fr/anglais/collec/ae/c0080/ae_f.htm
This goes to 'Paser's Stele' c. 1410 BC (18th Dynasty)
It shows him receiving offerings from his wife, daughter and son. I don't think it's the Paser of Taemwadjsy - a bit too early.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2004 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sesen wrote:
That was good deduction detective, regarding her name Very Happy

"Elementary my dear Watson" Very Happy

Yes, following the "tradition" (of maximal possible confusion) there are 2 (maybe more) Pasers Very Happy

I have found:
Paser, son of Nebnetjeru & his wife Merytre, was the or an `overseer of builders' of the time of Ramses II. Is this the Vizier?

And Paser, son Of Amenhotep/Huy and Taemwadjsi

(There's also on in the mid 18th dynasty, reign of Amenhotep III)
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Yes, following the "tradition" (of maximal possible confusion) there are 2 (maybe more) Pasers

surnames would be useful! There is another Paser (II) too is there not...the son of Minmose, first prophet of Min? Future Viceroy of Kush.

Quote:
(There's also on in the mid 18th dynasty, reign of Amenhotep III)

This must be the Paser featured in the link to the Stele. 1410bc would place him right in Amen III's reign.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
surnames would be useful! There is another Paser (II) too is there not...the son of Minmose, first prophet of Min? Future Viceroy of Kush.


You're rigth, got my names confused. Sorry 'bout that.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing Its so very easy to get them confused, this is why I wish they'd had surnames - would make it easier, sometimes anyway Confused
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