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Queen Mutnodjemet
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:20 pm    Post subject: Queen Mutnodjemet Reply with quote

Queen Mutnodjemet (= Mutnodjmet = Mutnezmet) was the Great Wife of Horemheb.
She is mentioned on his Coranation Inscription.
She was buried in Horemheb's tomb in Memphis with a baby.
She may have been Aye's daughter.
There's a possibility that Horemheb was her second husband.
She may be the same person who is found in Aye's tomb in Amarna, and be the Mutnodjmet who is described as the "Queen's Sister" (i.e. Nefertiti's sister).
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is not much information from the rule of Aye.
This is the text from a Stela from year 3 of Aye's reign. He records the gift of land to an official, who's name is lost (all we know is that his name ends in an "n"). What is recorded is that this official is married to a lady Mutnezmet.
Coincidence? Could this be the future Queen with her first husband? They are important enough to appear on this stela.

It could of course be someone else, but it's intriguing.

Quote:
Year 3, third month of the third season (eleventh month), first day, of King Eye, given life while he was in Memphis.
His majesty commanded to endow him with lands, a reward for the King’s _____, _____ and for his wife Mutnezmet. It was laid out in the district called: “Field –of-the-Kheta” in the fields of the house of Okheperkere (Thutmosis I)………

…. There came the chief King’s scribe, the steward, Ramose: the scribe, Merire: ____ Thay. Command was given to the ____ attendant, Re, to transfer it.


(From Breasted's Ancient Records. ___ means that the text is illegible at that point.)

People have speculated that the inscription read: "For King's Son Nakhtmin and his wife Mutnodjemet". But there is no definitive proof for that.
(I will have to look up who postulated that theory.)
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2004 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It was laid out in the district called: “Field –of-the-Kheta”


I wonder where that is? Kheta is the name given to the Hittites...and the reference to the house of Thutmoses I, perhaps his family or place of birth?
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rest of the inscription (I did not include that part of the text) says something about the boundaries of the plot of land given to the couple.
The boundaries of the plot of land were formed by fields of "the house of" Thutmosis I, Thutmosis IV and the house of Ptah.

Breasted's text notes in the footnotes that the stela was found near the Great Pyramid, and it is now located in Cairo museum.

I have no idea what this means though. My first impression is that this is a plot of land to build a temple and / or tomb ???? But that is total guesswork on my part. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The boundaries of the plot of land were formed by fields of "the house of" Thutmosis I, Thutmosis IV and the house of Ptah.


The reference to the house of Ptah, I wonder if the land was somewhere around Memphis or Saqqara. The great temple of Ptah was rennovated during the New Kingdom, when the kings turned their attention back to Memphis. Many tomb were built at Saqqara at this time, so probably your guess is pretty close to the mark.
The elder son of Amenhotep III was killed at Memphis. I dont know if he was buried there.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 4:13 pm    Post subject: crown prince thutmosis Reply with quote

Quote:
The elder son of Amenhotep III was killed at Memphis. I dont know if he was buried there.


The only other son of Amenhotep III I know about is Crown Prince Thutmosis. If he had lived, he would have been Thutmosis V. There may have never been a religious revolution!

I have never heard that he was murdeered.
All I remember reading about him is that he had become a Priest of Ptah. He was a crown-prince.
He had his cat, by the name of "Ta-Miu" mummified.
I don't think it is known where he was buried, but people have speculated that he might have been buried in Saqqara.

People have also speculated that the mummy of the boy with the side-lock that lies between the mummy identified as Queen Tiye and the one Fletcher tried to pass off as Nefertiti was actually the mummy of crown-prince Thutmosis.

There is no evidence for that, but if the lady with the long wavy hair is Tiye, then the other two mummies might reasonably be speculated to be related to her.

The mummy of the "elder lady" has been identified as Tiye based on a lock of hair found in Tut's tomb. The lock of hair was enclosed in a box with Tiye's name on it. Cranio-morphological comparisons to the mummy of Thuya have shown that they could be mother and daughter. I also vaguely remember there being a possible problem due to the blood types of these two women.

I read somewhere recently that there was also a lock of hair from Ankhesenamen in Tut's tomb. (from a wedding ceremony?????)
This lock of hair has not been compared to the lock of hair that supposedly came from Queen Tiye.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I have never heard that he was murdeered.


Sorry that was poor wording on my part, I should have said 'he died' rather than was killed - did make it sould like murder!
Yes, Tuthmose (V) was the son I was referring to. I've read of him as High Priest of Ptah at Memphis, Overseer of Priests in Upper and Lower Egypt, and Captain of the Troops. Its believed he had a son (though I have not looked him up to verify this) a Ptahmose IV who became High Priest of Ptah. Interesting if this is so, as he may have also had a claim to the throne were he alive.
Although if it is ever confirmed that the boy with the side lock is Thutmose V, it would be unlikely he had the chance to become a father, unless it is this Ptahmose IV his 'son'. As son of the heir to the throne, he would have been a significant person.

Harking back to the plot of land:
Quote:
who's name is lost (all we know is that his name ends in an "n").


Horemheb as Haremhab Meryamun (Horus is in jubilation, beloved of Amun) would fit the bill as husband of Mutnodjmet. Could this plot of land be the one and the same that he built his Saqqara tomb/funery temple that is currently being excavated. Overlooking Memphis (House of Ptah ?) but the significance of the 'field of the Kheta' eludes me.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to read Martin's book a little bit more carefully, but I think that Horemheb had been working on his tomb in Saqqara for a long time. There's evidence of depictions of Akhenaten, Tutankhamen etc. Martin also mentions that the tomb seems to have gone through 3 or 4 stages.
And during Aye's reign I believe Horemheb was still married to Amenia, his first wife. Amenia was supposedly buried in the tomb during Aye's reign.

That doesn't seem to fit with the land being deeded to him in year 3 of Aye's reign.

I also had the impression that Horemheb married Mutnodjmet as part of his coronation ritual.

I'll have to do some "homework" Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aahhh oh well, it would have been nice to have an inscription match the land gifted - eh? But it certainly doesn't look like that dates work at all.
I must do a bit more reading on the temple too.

Still pondering this 'district called the field of the Keta'. I'm wondering; since it appears to be a reference to the Hittites or perhaps more significantly their god Sutekh (Egyptian version is Seth). The Hittites were feared, respected (as a powerful foe) and more than likely maligned. Seth's domain was the desert, place for the necropolis.
Could it be a tongue in cheek term for the previously defeated enemy, or their god Sutekh Lord of Heaven/Storms?
Also wondering if the 'House of Ptah' might be Imhotep's Step Pyramid built for Zjoser, or the tomb of Imhotep himself. Imhotep is depicted as a son of Ptah and was later deified, though I'm not sure when.
Still leaning towards this land being near/at Saqqara.
LOL...I should really move all my 'wonderings' to one of the other threads!
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The Field of the Kheta" is a strange designation.
I'm not sure when the Hittites take over power from the Mitanni. It must be sometime during this period. i.e after the reign of Amenhotep III (he was allied with the Mitanni through marriages) and before Ramses II (as he went to was with the Hittites)

I wonder if there was just an area where many of these "Northerners" lived? Many Mitanni had come to Egypt, quite a few in the entourage of Gilukhepa and Tadukhepa. There may have been a sizable neighborhood of these immigrants.

But that's just my guess. Very Happy

The only fields I have read about that have religious significance are the "Field of Reeds", "The Field of Grasshoppers" and the "Elysian Fields". These are all meant to depict some heavenly lands in the afterlife I think.

Considering that the Kheta are the enemy. The Field of the Kheta sounds more like a purgatory. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
But then again you don't award people lands in "purgatory".

You mention Seth. Seth was on the rise at that point in time, so you guess that it's related to this god might be a good guess.

But the short answer is that I just plainly don't know....
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe it was Aidon Dodson who theorized that Mutnodjmet was first married to Nakhtmin. Some see Nakhtmin as the son of Aye and Tey.
I think that all of these theories are based on partial inscriptions.

Nakhtmin was a general I believe. He was an important person at the court of Thutankhamen. He provided the King with a beautiful ushabti.

There is a statue of him and his wife in the museum of Cairo. The back of his statue names him as King's son of _____
The blanks have been filled in by some as King's son of his body, making him Aye's son and heir.
Others have filled in the blanks as King's son of Kush. This would have made him Viceroy of Nubia.
I always thought that the Viceroys during that period were the brothers Huy and Amenhotep (I may remember the names wrong here)

The statue of the wife is damaged so that the name is not to be found anymore.

The statues of Nakhtmin and his wife do show signs of what I think they refer to as damnatio memorae (I'm probably spelling that incorrectly).
But there are signs of deliberate destruction of the statues. Eyes are cut, mouth is damaged. Of Nakhtmin only his head survives, a little more survived of the wife. It was once a dyad, but the statue has been broken to separate the two figures. Would be interesting if that latter fact was intentional!
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you ever read of Mutnodjmet having the title of Songstress of Amun?
I don't have any titles for her before her marriage to Horemheb

Quote:
I'm not sure when the Hittites take over power from the Mitanni.

Things start to fall apart for them during the reign of Akhenaten. They call for help but none is sent. The end comes for their kingdom during the reign of Seti I.

Quote:
The statue of the wife is damaged so that the name is not to be found anymore

If the wife was to be Mutnodjmet, she would be married to her full brother - thats if the genealogy theory is correct.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Embarassed Dammit!! where is my head today- Grrrrr. Of course Mutnodjmet had the title 'Songstress', for some reason I was half thinking of the Mutnofret daughter of Sennefer. Got the Muts mixed! [/quote]
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If the wife was to be Mutnodjmet, she would be married to her full brother - thats if the genealogy theory is correct.


That is actually part of my reason for putting forth the theory that Nefertiti and Mutnodjemet were daughters of Anen, not Aye

This is elegant (even if I say so myself Very Happy ), because it explains several things all at once: Mutnodjemet married her cousin Nakhtmin. (She would also have had a brother Nakhtmin, but he married Muttuy), it would explain why Tey is listed as wetnurse instead of mother, and why Aye and Tey though important are not once mentioned as parents. And it would make Nefertiti and Mutnodjemet part of the Priestly branch of the family, which makes more sense vis a vis the Heiress title both carried.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh forgot: Anen died somewhere in the last decade of Amenhotep III's reign. It is quite possible for him to leave behind some very young children. Nakhtmin may have been older, but Nefertiti and Mutnodjemet would have been very young at that time.

But that's just my personal little theory.
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