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anneke
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 4:45 pm    Post subject: Re: New Evidence Reply with quote

Yves Van Herp wrote:

Hello Jason,

I'm just new on the forum. But this particular thing interests me quite a lot. You, being an Egyptologist (or have I misunderstood?), don't you think that the "traces" left by water (a river perhaps, rain downpour, ...) are already "hard evidence" that the sphinx isn't the work of the pharaohs who claimed it?
It has allows enchanted me that there maybe has been a previous civilization, much older than the Egyptian, on that particular place. And... I'm not one of those "Disney Land-people"!


I'm not Jason, but I'll put in my "2 cents worth" anyway Laughing

I agree with you Yves. It seems that the traces of water are already some evidence.

There is of course an alternative, and that is that some older structure existed, and was recarved to give it it's present appearance.

It wouldn't be the first time the Egyptian Kings had reused existing materials.

But it would of course beg the question: Who were there before the Egyptians.
I think Graham Hancock wrote a book about this topic. I'm not so convinced of his conclusions, but he raises some interesting questions.
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Yves Van Herp
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:34 pm    Post subject: Re: New Evidence Reply with quote

anneke wrote:

I'm not Jason, but I'll put in my "2 cents worth" anyway Laughing

I agree with you Yves. It seems that the traces of water are already some evidence.

There is of course an alternative, and that is that some older structure existed, and was recarved to give it it's present appearance.

It wouldn't be the first time the Egyptian Kings had reused existing materials.

But it would of course beg the question: Who were there before the Egyptians.I think Graham Hancock wrote a book about this topic. I'm not so convinced of his conclusions, but he raises some interesting questions.


You mean "The Message of the Sphinx", a book he wrote together with a Belgian, Robert Bauval (who himself is the author of "The Orion Mystery").

Both books are absolutely worth reading in my humble point of view.
And it is indeed a more than fascinating question which civilization could have been on the spot where the great Egyptian civilization was.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The book I have is "Finger-Prints of the Gods". I haven't read the book co-authored by Hancock and Bauval. (Didn't know he was Belgian either Smile )

He brings up some other structures that don't quite match with the architecture as known from the time of the Pharaohs.

I read it a long time ago, so I don't remember the details.
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Yves Van Herp
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
The book I have is "Finger-Prints of the Gods". I haven't read the book co-authored by Hancock and Bauval. (Didn't know he was Belgian either Smile )

He brings up some other structures that don't quite match with the architecture as known from the time of the Pharaohs.

I read it a long time ago, so I don't remember the details.


I never read "The Finger-Prints of the Gods" and "The Message of the Sphinx" is also a while ago. But eventually - if you can lay your hands on it - "The Orion Mystery" is also a must read for someone who's so interested in Egyptology.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will have to read "The Orion Mystery" at some point.
I'm still a bit behind on all my other reading, so it may have to wait a bit.

I'm almost tempted to read "fingerprints of the gods" again.

So many books, so little time Laughing
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isisinacrisis
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't read Hancock's books but I have seen his documentaries and they were fascinating. That's where I first got my first glimpse of the Orion mystery and the concept of astronomical alignements with the temples and pyramids. Very interesting, i would love to read the books some day.
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Yves Van Herp
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
I will have to read "The Orion Mystery" at some point.
I'm still a bit behind on all my other reading, so it may have to wait a bit.

I'm almost tempted to read "fingerprints of the gods" again.

So many books, so little time Laughing


That's an exact quote my wife and myself also use quite a lot!
Within a few minutes we'll go to bed but first there's our daily 'reading session'! Smile
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anneke
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2004 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isisinacrisis wrote:
I haven't read Hancock's books but I have seen his documentaries and they were fascinating. That's where I first got my first glimpse of the Orion mystery and the concept of astronomical alignements with the temples and pyramids. Very interesting, i would love to read the books some day.


Yes, I may have seen some of those too.
I was thinking about your posts about the Orion Mystery when it came up here again. (Well the posts were really about astronomy, but you knnow what I mean Laughing )
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Yves Van Herp
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isisinacrisis wrote:
I haven't read Hancock's books but I have seen his documentaries and they were fascinating. That's where I first got my first glimpse of the Orion mystery and the concept of astronomical alignements with the temples and pyramids. Very interesting, i would love to read the books some day.


The documentaries were really good, I still have them. In fact we've got a lot of documentaries, especially on Egypt WWII and the Celts.
But the Orion Mystery was indeed very good, it says that the pyramids maybe would have been much older then we believe.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yves Van Herp wrote:
........ But the Orion Mystery was indeed very good, it says that the pyramids maybe would have been much older then we believe.


That's a theory I don't believe in. The reason is that there's quite a bit of evidence showing the development of the pyramids from step pyramids to "true" pyramids. Clearly they had to learn as they went. One pyramid collapsed while under construction, another they changed the slope on and resulted in the "Bent Pyramid".

I think there's inscriptional evidence on the Great pyramid, dating it to the time of Khufu.
This evidence is in the form of notes scribbled on the stones referring to food rations and groups of laborers if I remember correctly.

I think the Sphinx is different in the fact that there are no earlier depictions of the Sphinx? Or am I full of "bovine-manure" on that one? Laughing
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Yves Van Herp
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
Yves Van Herp wrote:
........ But the Orion Mystery was indeed very good, it says that the pyramids maybe would have been much older then we believe.


That's a theory I don't believe in. The reason is that there's quite a bit of evidence showing the development of the pyramids from step pyramids to "true" pyramids. Clearly they had to learn as they went. One pyramid collapsed while under construction, another they changed the slope on and resulted in the "Bent Pyramid".

I think there's inscriptional evidence on the Great pyramid, dating it to the time of Khufu.
This evidence is in the form of notes scribbled on the stones referring to food rations and groups of laborers if I remember correctly.

I think the Sphinx is different in the fact that there are no earlier depictions of the Sphinx? Or am I full of "bovine-manure" on that one? Laughing


You certainly aren't, but what always intrigues me is the fact that a "stone based" civilization like the Egyptian one was, could manage such feats of technological intellect "all of a sudden". Where did they get that knowledge? I'm very anxious to know an exact answer on that one, although we will perhaps never know for sure. I want to add that I'm not one of those people who believe in long lost "high tech civilizations" so to speak.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yves Van Herp wrote:
..., but what always intrigues me is the fact that a "stone based" civilization like the Egyptian one was, could manage such feats of technological intellect "all of a sudden". Where did they get that knowledge? I'm very anxious to know an exact answer on that one, although we will perhaps never know for sure. I want to add that I'm not one of those people who believe in long lost "high tech civilizations" so to speak.


I think that one of the problems may be that the early history of Egypt is not very well understood at all.
They used to start with the 1st dynasty, but they have already had to precede that by a 0th dynasty with Kings with names such as "Scorpion".

The very early tombs that they have found looked more like large underground chambers. I don't remember who the king was, but in one of those tombs they found ivory(?) labels, and these are soem of the earliest found writing in Egypt. I saw this on a documentary, and they said that some of the hieroglyphics were chosen in some way that made sense from a logical point of view. (I don't remember the details, but "far away" would be depicted by mountains, or something like that.)

I wonder if their earliest buildings were made out of natural materials, and because of the long time that has passed there are no remains of that.
The reason for that speculation is that some of the decorations made structures look like stone versions of buildings from natural materials. For instance the pillars looked like bundles of reed, or other plant like material.

So I don't know if maybe the development appear sudden to us, because we don't have the full (early) picture.

But your rigth in pointing out that the question of how such a great and long lasting civilization ever developed at all is an intriguing one.
There were changes and the civilization developed over time, but the basic frame work seems to have remained fairly stable.
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isisinacrisis
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't believe in Disney Land or aliens either, but you may have an interesting point. It seems the pyramids were a very 'trial and error' structure then-the Giza pyramids being the most perfect of the lot.

I know the idea that the pyramids were built in 10000 BC is far fetched, but I like the idea that they may have aligned with, or represented the stars. (There's me going off at a tangent again.)

What do you think of the Sphinx-Leo connection?
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Yves Van Herp
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:

I think that one of the problems may be that the early history of Egypt is not very well understood at all.
They used to start with the 1st dynasty, but they have already had to precede that by a 0th dynasty with Kings with names such as "Scorpion".


The famous "Scorpion King" - in Egyptian pronounced something like Srqt - was indeed a legendary ruler of old. Another intrigueing character. I think a macehead depicting a scorpion sign was found in the old town of Nekhen, the first capital of King Narmer.
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isisinacrisis
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2004 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I heard somewhere that the Scorpion king invented writing-and that was before the mesipotamians who are usually credited with inventing it.
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