Go to the Egyptian Dreams shop
Egyptian Dreams
Ancient Egypt Discussion Board
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Egyptian astronomy questions
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Mythology and Religion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
isisinacrisis
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 2228
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:41 pm    Post subject: Egyptian astronomy questions Reply with quote

Yet more questions from me, I'm so annoying! Laughing I'm fascinated by the idea that the Egyptians could have been sophisticated astronomers and had great knowledge of the stars, and need to ask some related questions...

1. What are the 'indestructible stars'? Are they Orion and Sirius?

2. Were the Egyptians aware of the planets? And if so, what names did they give them (ie were they named after gods like the Greek/Roman planet names?)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anneke
Queen of Egypt
Queen of Egypt


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 9305

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm so annoying! Very Happy


NO you're not!

Have to admit I know nothing about that. The closest I can get to that is to point you to a depiction of their zodiac:
http://showcase.netins.net/web/ankh/calendar1.html

This chart must be based on stars and planets. I don't know which ones they knew about though. Venus and Mars are visible to the naked eye, so I expect that they knew those. I don't think they ever devised anything resembling a telescope, so I don't know how much knowledge they would have had.

I'm pretty sure that the Egyptians knew about Orion.
_________________
Math and Art: http://mathematicsaroundus.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anneke
Queen of Egypt
Queen of Egypt


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 9305

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did a quicky google search, and found this site about Sirius.

here's a quote from the bottom of the page:
Quote:
In Ancient Egypt Sirius was the brightest, and most important star in the night sky.

Sirius was astronomically the foundation of their entire religious system. It was the embodiment of Isis, sister and consort of the god Osiris, who appeared in the sky as Orion.

Sirius' helical rising (when Sirius again rose into visibility after being hidden by the Sun's light for 70 days) marked the beginning of the Egyptian year and roughly coincided with the flooding of the Nile - major events marked by feasting and celebration. Egyptians believed Sirius was responsible for the rains, so it was vital to accurately predict its arrival. It was the centerpiece of Egypt's 365-day solar calendar, and its appearance marked the beginning of the new year.

_________________
Math and Art: http://mathematicsaroundus.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anneke
Queen of Egypt
Queen of Egypt


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 9305

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Confused forgot to gve you the link Confused

http://www.crystalinks.com/sirius.html
_________________
Math and Art: http://mathematicsaroundus.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anneke
Queen of Egypt
Queen of Egypt


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 9305

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's another nice page :
http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/d/r/drn116/egypt.html

I read somewhere else that Jupiter was equated with Amon.

Quote:
Orion - represents the Egyptian god of the dead, Osiris. Dead pharaohs supposedly became stars in Osiris ("typo? they mean Orion?") as they joined god.


Quote:
Ursa Minor - identified as the jackal of the god, Set

_________________
Math and Art: http://mathematicsaroundus.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
isisinacrisis
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 2228
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose they would be aware of planets-I mean, Venus is the brightest object in the sky after the moon and sun! But did they count them as 'stars' or as another type of celestial object.

I am very aware of the importance of Sirius and Orion in Egypt, ever since I was introduced to the 'Orion Theory' many years ago when I watch a prog on tv about ancient monuments (like the pyramids) aligning with the stars. And of course I knew of the connection between Sirius, Isis, the new year and the Nile flood.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anneke
Queen of Egypt
Queen of Egypt


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 9305

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the pages I cited, it seems that they realized the planets behaved different.

Have have heard of the "Orion theory" but I don't know exactly what that is. Is there a short summary you could give, or is it fairly complicated???
_________________
Math and Art: http://mathematicsaroundus.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
isisinacrisis
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 2228
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Orion Theory is the idea that the Pyramids represent Orion's belt and align with it, and that air shafts in the great pyramid are aligned with Orion and Sirius. For some reason, some academic egyptologists like to debunk this theory (in fact, some academics like to debunk everything to do with astronomy in ancient egypt!!!) but I don't see why because it seems to be more logical than most pyramid theories I've heard...just because a theory involves stars, it doesn't mean it involves aliens lol

Still can't find anything on 'Indestructable stars' though...

Concerning planets, I've got some correspondences that may be wrong, but they are based on stuff I read in books about astrology:
Mercury is Thoth (as is the moon)
Venus is Hathor (or maybe Isis)
Mars is...according to one astrologer Mars is Set, but I've seen Mars linked with Horus too
Jupiter is Amon
Saturn is...not sure about that but someone mentioned a connection with Osiris.
And concering stars, Orion is Osiris and Sirius is Isis.

Oh, and did you know that there are *** called Isis, Osiris and Horus?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anneke
Queen of Egypt
Queen of Egypt


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 9305

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bunking and debunking are both fun I think. Cool

Are the airshafts in the other pyramids aligned with anything?
It does seem a bit much of a coincidence if airshafts align with heavenly bodies.
And you're right, Egyptians were plenty smart to do this themselves. No aliens required.

I have never heard of the phrase "indestructible stars". Is that a reference from mythology or something???


I had not heard about the ***. That's really neat Very Happy .
God(esse)s want to be in Orion though. Wouldn't hey get ticked off if we stuck 'em in some asteroid belt for perpetuity???? (Just kidding.)
_________________
Math and Art: http://mathematicsaroundus.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Djehtinefer
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 19
Location: Lancashire, UK

PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

“The sky is clear, Sothis lives, because I am a living one, the son of Sothis and the Two Enneads have cleansed themselves for me in Ursa Minor, the imperishable.” (Utterance 302, The king becomes a star, Pyr.458) (Faulkner, 1998, p.91)

In the Book of the Dead, the deceased is also associated with the ‘imperishable stars’ and joins the afterlife with them. For example in Spell 44, ‘Spell for not dying again’ from the Book of the Dead, the deceased declares “I have hidden myself among you, Imperishable Stars”. (Allen, 1974, p.50) Similar sentiments and thoughts can be found in Spell 137A, “[Making] the soul prevail over its enemies, making it exist in the retinue of the Imperishable Stars” (Allen, 1974, p.115); Spell 149, “I am with the imperishable stars that are in thee” (Allen, 1974, p.145) and Spell 168B, “the Father of Horus, who begot him before my face and [put] me among the imperishable (stars)”. (Allen, 1974, p.171)

The imperishable stars are the circumpolar stars because they revolve around the pole star and never sink below the horizon.

As for the so-called airshafts in the Great Pyramid they wouldn't be much use as such as they were blocked off at both ends and were only found in the last 150 years.

The shafts were discovered by Waynman Dixon in 1872 and the shafts where completely invisible from the Queens Chamber. As all the shafts have some sort of bend in them in it is extremely unlikely that any light source could have been seen through them (even during construction). The most likely explanation is that they were spirit or soul shafts. (See http://www.cheops.org/ for more details.)


Sources

Allen, Thomas George (1974) The Book of the Dead or Going Forth by Day: Ideas of the ancient Egyptians concerning the hereafter as expressed in their own terms Chicago: University of Chicago Press

Faulkner, R. O. (1998) The Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts Oxford: Oxford University Press
_________________
Em Maat Djehutinefer
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
isisinacrisis
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 2228
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, the air shafts wouldn't line up with the stars now, because of the earth's precession. I think that they may have been aligned to the stars but in a symbolic/spiritual way, not used as observing shafts.

Ok...so the imperishable/indestructible stars are not Orion and Sirius then, they are the stars near the north star I think.

Any info on planets, because I think my info is wrong about the gods...

Another question: what is this famous 'Egyptian Zodiac' ceiling? Is it the oldest zodiac in the world, and does it prove that the Egyptians were the first to study astrology before the Babylonians?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rip Li
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 73
Location: Florida, USA

PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2004 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a great thread. I wish I still had all my old notes, but it looks like others have covered this very well!

I know the shafts in the tombs are open so that Serius can be seen. through it and the spirit can ascend toward the heavens...

The BIG Dipper!

:flower:
_________________
Omm Sety is my personal hero. She'll spill the beans to Osiris!!!
Egypt moon love...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
isisinacrisis
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 2228
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2004 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen a claim that the pyramids line up with the Big dipper/Ursa Major constellation or the north star-is this true?

And I'd still like to know the Egyptian names for the planets-help, please?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rip Li
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 18 May 2004
Posts: 73
Location: Florida, USA

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure. I have a bad memory even though I sat through one of our shows, "African Skies," like a million times. I guess when you work in a theater you block it out after a while. I know the shafts in the pyramids line up with Thuban (the north star which is in Draco).

I'm not sure if Sirius lines up with the shafts.

Can I recommend you look up the Adler Planetarium website, and see if there is information on this. Or you can call them and leave a message for an astronomer. 312-922-7827. That's the number on my brochure.

You should really visit that museum, Isisinacrisis, because if you like astronomy, that place will blow you away! faroah
_________________
Omm Sety is my personal hero. She'll spill the beans to Osiris!!!
Egypt moon love...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
isisinacrisis
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 2228
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2004 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought the north star was called Polaris and is in a different constellation? But I have heard the name Thuban being used in conjunction with the pyramids. Plus the pyramid shafts also line up with Orion.

I can't go to that planetarium because I don't live in the US...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Mythology and Religion All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group