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Segereh
Pharaoh
Joined: 22 Apr 2004
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Location: Bruges
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 Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:48 pm Post subject: Awkward statue... |
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Thes pics come from a Spanish site.
They originate from the Outdoors dept. of the Caïro Museum.
No further explanation was given.
I don't recall ever having seen a similar statue.
It appears to be large (about 3m high?) and made of a hard stone, like granite.
The thing that interested me is the woman behind the man: very close, very 3D, in a pose of blessing.
I'd guess it concerns a goddess - she seems to wear an uraeus too btw.
Anyway, I haven't often seen a statue where u actually have to look at sideways to distinguish one of the models.
I don't think I ever really have, to be honest...
Dating it, I'd say it goes from the age of Ramesses up to the Late Period.
Blurry and confusing.
Does anyone know more about it?
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Daughter_Of_SETI
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Joined: 09 Mar 2006
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Location: Hull, UK
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: Awkward statue... |
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| Segereh wrote: | | Does anyone know more about it? |
No, I don't know anything about it, but it really is an interesting piece. I too haven't seen a staue where the lady is stood behind a pharaoh like that. The way the lady's hands are placed it looks like very protective gestures (like those of a wife or goddess): you often see stances like that on temple/tomb walls and maybe even in papyri, but not in statues. I hope someone knows more about it. 
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Aset
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Segereh
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Joined: 22 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, Aset!
Two things I notice with the new pics:
1. The standard/pillar behind the woman stands further from both models than you can see on the first pictures.
It's inscribed as well, so a provenance could be easier to find, if anyone ever studied those.
2. The stone from the statue is red/pink granite, I think:
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Segereh
Pharaoh
Joined: 22 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Segereh wrote: | 1. The standard/pillar behind the woman stands further from both models than you can see on the first pictures.
It's inscribed as well, so a provenance could be easier to find, if anyone ever studied those. |
Never mind that...
Next to senility I'm starting to suffer from blindness too.
That pillar has nothing to do with the figures.
Sorry. 
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kmt_sesh
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:50 am Post subject: |
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The male's face is rather Ramesside, isn't it? A very peculiar statue, indeed. I would have to agree with you folks that the placement of the female figure's hands is important: the right hand up behind the male's head seems like a blessing and the left hand on his shoulder seems protective.
I've never seen anything quite like this from ancient Egypt. I also noticed the left, extended foot of the king-figure in this photo shared by Aset. He almost looks to be wearing a slipper or shoe, which strikes me as unusual. Is that just a play of light and am I seeing it wrong? It's not the way you typically see Egyptian figures, is it?
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Daughter_Of_SETI
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Location: Hull, UK
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| kmt_sesh wrote: | | He almost looks to be wearing a slipper or shoe, which strikes me as unusual. Is that just a play of light and am I seeing it wrong? It's not the way you typically see Egyptian figures, is it? |
It looks like a sandal to me.  I have read that sometimes in Ptolemaic and Roman periods pharaohs and gods were sometimes depicted in a slightly more Graeco-Roman style, so maybe if this statue was re-used in later times, the footware could've been altered slightly?? 
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Segereh
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Joined: 22 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Segereh wrote: | | dating it, I'd say it goes from the age of Ramesses up to the Late Period. |
| kmt_sesh wrote: | | The male's face is rather Ramesside, isn't it? |
I agree, but I'd leave in a margin for "renaissance periods" where earlier styles got copied.
The material of the statue makes that doubtful though...
In the Saïte Renaissance basalt, schist and "grauwak" (Dutch word for it, sorry) were most popular.
In the Kushite Renaissance before that, basalt and dark granites were most often used too.
Probably because people then prefered a shiny, polished touch in statuary.
And I know only few renaissance statues, being carved from the actual "old" materials.
(One of the ways to distinguish one from older statues of a similar style)...
Also the pleading of the skirt and the facial features on the pharaoh seem to point to a Ramesside origin.
But you can never be too sure.
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Segereh
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| Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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Forgot this: the foot isn't "real".
I think it's a prosthetic leg, to keep the statue up.
Plastic Reconstruction © Egyptian Authorities.
Same happened to a piece of the throat.
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kmt_sesh
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Forgot this: the foot isn't "real". |
Ah, that would make sense. I thought it looked odd. Re-examining the photo I can now see that large chunk from the knee down where it must have been restored.
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Segereh
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:28 am Post subject: |
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They definitely did a fine job there.
The leg follows the plead in the King's skirt.
What still troubles me most about this statue:
even if it is a Ramesside king, his features don't look familiar.
Not like I knew them all personally, but this one really doesn't ring a bell.
I've been trying to find more info on the Caïro Museum sites, but no luck...
Maybe someone knows of a different source to trace Caïro's treasures?
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Dadude
Citizen
Joined: 04 Apr 2008
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: Awkward statue... |
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| Segereh wrote: | Thes pics come from a Spanish site.
They originate from the Outdoors dept. of the Caïro Museum.
No further explanation was given.
I don't recall ever having seen a similar statue.
It appears to be large (about 3m high?) and made of a hard stone, like granite.
The thing that interested me is the woman behind the man: very close, very 3D, in a pose of blessing.
I'd guess it concerns a goddess - she seems to wear an uraeus too btw.
Anyway, I haven't often seen a statue where u actually have to look at sideways to distinguish one of the models.
I don't think I ever really have, to be honest...
dating it, I'd say it goes from the age of Ramesses up to the Late Period.
Blurry and confusing.
Does anyone know more about it? |
yeah that is strange, when a pharaoh is depicted with a female figure in statues, whether that female be his wife, mother, or a goddess, shes usually right next to him and not behind , hmmmmm
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Ankhesenamun
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Joined: 31 Mar 2008
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Location: Wales
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| Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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What an interesting piece! Can't say I've noticed it at the museum before. Sadly as I suspected it doesn't feature in the Cairo Museum book. Looks New Kingdom to me too
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dzama923
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Joined: 15 Jul 2014
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Location: Stamford, Connecticut
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:33 am Post subject: |
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| This is interesting to me. At first, it looked to be unfinished. It must be really old. I wonder how they found it. |
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Lutz
Pharaoh
Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 4019
Location: Berlin, Germany
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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It is a statue of Ramses II reconstructed from several fragments found by Petrie in Tanis (Cairo Museum, Temporary Journal No. 27/5/67/1). See ...
W. M. F. Petrie : Tanis I. - London, 1885. - p. 15, pl. 14(2)
and
Mohammed Saleh : Varia from the Egyptian Museum in Cairo. - In: Stationen - Beiträge zur Kulturgeschichte Ägyptens, Rainer Stadelmann gewidmet. - Mainz : Philipp von Zabern, 1998. - pp. 353 - 361, pl. 17 - 19.
If the women in his back is a goddess (Mut? Anat?) or one of his wifes seems not clear / disputed.
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