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Is Roman Catholic Church a cult of Amun-Ra?
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cleopatra_selene
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:31 am    Post subject: Is Roman Catholic Church a cult of Amun-Ra? Reply with quote

I had read this in a book and it kind of made me interested in this topic..
Is Roman Catholic Church a cult of Amun-Ra?
It sounds rather far fetched if u ask me but i figure there's no harm in a little curiosity...cud it just be another theory? Idea
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anneke
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have heard of the supposed similarities between Psalm 104 and the Hymn to the Aten, which is somewhat similar to a hymn to Amun?

Then there are people who have claimed that "Amen" comes from the name of the god Amun - which should be taken with a grain of salt.

Somehow one of the points of the whole exodus story seems to be that the faith of the Hebrews and hence any religion built on that story is very different from the egyptian religion(s). The Christian god is different from the egyptian (otherwise the poor dear was competing with him/herself when the magicians were having their contest) and the worship is very different.

I think the story of the worship of the golden calf and the proverbial cow that Moses had over that seems to show that the two types of worship are meant to be very different.

Having said all that, IMHO there must have some effect that the egyptian religious traditions had on the Hebrews (for the sake of argument assuming here that these books in the bible doument historical events - that in and off itself is an entirely different can of worms Wink )
If you live within a different culture for many generations this will have some effect. This would not need to be something they adopted from their "hosts", it could equally well be a desire to contrast oneself with the others.
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cleopatra_selene
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ive heard that Moses is actually an AE name rather than the supposed hebrew one..it is true?
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Daughter_Of_SETI
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cleopatra_selene wrote:
ive heard that Moses is actually an AE name rather than the supposed hebrew one..it is true?

I don't know anything about Hebrew names, but Moses certainly does sound Egyptian. However, the name mose - I believe like mes - literally means 'born of' in ancient Egyptian, so even though it sounds Egyptian, it probably wasn't. Lots of people have mose or mes as part of their names like: Ramesses / Ramose (Ra bore him), Tuthmose / Djehutymes (Born of Thoth), Ahmose (The Moon is Born, I think).

I doubt that anyone would just name themselves 'Born of.' Idea
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a man named Mose who was a ttreasury srcibe in the temple of Ptah in Memphis during the time of Ramesses II.
He's somewhat famous because of inscriptions in his temple tomb that refer to some legal dispute between two different branches of his family.
The case is about who is supposed to inherit a track of land that one of their ancestors was awarded many generations ago.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
There is a man named Mose who was a ttreasury srcibe in the temple of Ptah in Memphis during the time of Ramesses II.

That's interesting! Very Happy I'd never heard of anyone naming themselves Mose before. Do you know how his name was written, Anneke?
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I don't know how his name was written. That would be interesting to see.
I only have the translation of the text in one of my books by K.A. kitchen.

I just remembered that there is also a tomb of another man named Mes (Mose) whose tomb was found in Dashur:
"Mes,          Time of Ramses II.
Royal scribe, Steward, Overseer of the Horses of the King,
Found by the Universities of Waseda and Tokai expedition in Dashur. Mes reused the late 18th dynasty tomb of Ipay (Butler). An anthropoid coffin of Mes was found. "

I think this latter man's name was written just as "Mose" was written in the composite names Ra-mose, Tuth-mose, etc.

There's a picture of his sarcophagus with his name here:
http://www.waseda.jp/prj-egypt/images/Dah9804L.JPG

I think it's written just above the arm of the goddess (Nephtys)

More can be found about this person, inscluding a picture of one of his shabtis on this site:
http://www.waseda.jp/prj-egypt/sites/Dhshr4-E.html
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
I think this latter man's name was written just as "Mose" was written in the composite names Ra-mose, Tuth-mose, etc.

There's a picture of his sarcophagus with his name here...I think it's written just above the arm of the goddess (Nephtys)

Yeah, I see the three fox skins glyph (F31), and what looks like the folded cloth glyph (S29) at both sides of the goddesses head; I'm guessing the woven cloth glyph was used to stress the 'S' in Mose. It certainly does appear that his name was just Mose, even being written as it would in the name 'born of.'

Thanks for providing those links, Anneke. It's really interesting, I always just thought that Moses would've been a foreign name, but I guess the origins could've been Egyptian. It's a shame that there's doubtfully anything to show whether Mose was Egyptian or a foreigner; there's no throw-stick hieroglyph that I could see, but that doesn't always say much.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The glyphs are transliterated ass ms and when combined with for instance the name of the god Ra, the name r'-ms is translated as Ramose.
But when we only have ms as the name it is sometimes given as Mes, and at other times as Mose.

The story of Mes/Mose is given here (bottom of the page):
http://www.amigosdeegipto.com/Sala_de_estudio_bliblioteca_aportes_mujerenelae.htm

It's quite an involved story Smile Inheritance, bribary, kinda "Law and Order: Memphis"
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

woah! there's some deep history in the name...and that brings me to another question..did moses actually exsist or is it just biblical "hero"? Idea
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cleopatra_selene wrote:
did moses actually exsist or is it just biblical "hero"?

I guess some people would say he did exsist; others would say that he didn't. Is there even any proof of Moses' exsistence outside of the Bible? Idea
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another spelling for the Egyptian name Mose is Mes. Existed a Mes who left an inscription, possibly from the end of Ramses II's reign which tells a long family feud story about the possession of an estate near to Meydum, inherited from Neshi, a distant ancestor who was admiral in the war against the Hyksos under Kamose and Ahmose.

There was also Mes-wy, viceroy of Nubia under Merneptah. Some scholars believe he and the usurper Amenmesse of Thebes were the same person.
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cleopatra_selene
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
guess some people would say he did exsist; others would say that he didn't. Is there even any proof of Moses' exsistence outside of the Bible?


that is a good question...i guess those ppl who go around proving that the bible is true may have some answers...im not sure what they are called... Idea
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
Quote:
The glyphs are transliterated ass ms and when combined with for instance the name of the god Ra, the name r'-ms is translated as Ramose.


That's very interesting stuff, anneke. I didn't know of an Egyptian simply named ms. And the link to the family history was very interesting to read. Ms in one sense does mean "born of" as mentioned elsewhere in this discussion, but the more formal spelling is msi. Ms can also mean "child," "calf," and "bouquet," among other things.

Daughter_Of_SETI wrote:
Quote:
Yeah, I see the three fox skins glyph (F31), and what looks like the folded cloth glyph (S29) at both sides of the goddesses head; I'm guessing the woven cloth glyph was used to stress the 'S' in Mose.


You're right on, lass. The fox pelt is a biliteral transliterated as ms, while the folded cloth is of course a monoliteral transliterated as s. Both are pretty clear to see in anneke's photo. The folded cloth in this case is just a phonetic complement meant to clarify that the final syllable in the fox pelt is an "s." In this case the folded cloth is not pronounced.

cleopatra_selene wrote:
Quote:
...and that brings me to another question..did moses actually exsist or is it just biblical "hero"?


The most level-headed biblical scholar would tell you the answer is the latter. There remains no real evidence whatsoever outside the Bible of the existence of Moses. There's no evidence of the biblical Exodus, for that matter. But to devoutly religious people it's not so simple. They definitely believe in Moses and it's important for them to do so, especially for Jewish people. To them it's a matter of faith, and faith is powerful stuff.
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cleopatra_selene
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
To them it's a matter of faith, and faith is powerful stuff.


i agree..i told my aunt about the whole catholic religion being cult of amun ra and she said she didnt believe in it because she truely believes in the bible (shes christian and polish)...however, i do think its an interesting theory if not an acutal fact...there's the whole thing with how at the end of each prayer people go "amen" which is actually a dirivitave of the word "amun"...
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