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Seti I Coronation
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:39 pm    Post subject: Seti I Coronation Reply with quote

I just found this forum, and I was wondering if any of you could give me a little help.
I have an assignment to comment an ancient egiptian image: The coronation of Seti I, which is on his temple at Abydos. I am having trouble identifying the two women that sit with him. If any of you can help me I would be very grateful.
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Daughter_Of_SETI
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have a picture of the scene you're referring to?
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Daughter_Of_SETI
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just found a reference to that depiction that says that it's Edjo, the cobra Goddess of Upper Egypt that you can see beside Seti I, and in the missing part of the relief there's supposed to be a depiction of Nekhbet, the vulture Goddess of Lower Egypt. They are both made to represent queens. I'm not certain of how correct that is, though, as I don't know how either of the goddesses names are written, so I can't see if they're mentioned in the text above them. It would seem to make sense to me, though, that these were the goddesses depicted seeing as the main job of the pharaoh was to unite upper and lower Egypt. Wink

Hope that helps.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much!! I thought that it might be them, depicting the unity of the land, but I wanted to be a bit more sure of it.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daughter_Of_SETI wrote:
I've just found a reference to that depiction that says that it's Edjo, the cobra Goddess of Upper Egypt that you can see beside Seti I, and in the missing part of the relief there's supposed to be a depiction of Nekhbet, the vulture Goddess of Lower Egypt


I guess you inverted, Daughter_Of_SETI:
Edjo > Per-Wadjet > Lower Egypt
Nekhbet > Nekheb > Upper Egypt
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Daughter_Of_SETI
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robson wrote:
I guess you inverted, Daughter_Of_SETI:
Edjo > Per-Wadjet > Lower Egypt
Nekhbet > Nekheb > Upper Egypt

Sorry, you're correct, Robson. I did get them the wrong way around.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is that really a coronation scene? The coronation scenes I have seen show for instance Amenhotep or Hatshepsut before a seated figure of Amun and are seen receiving their blessing.

These two godesses don't seem to be presenting Sety with a crown. And if he was being crowned, wouldn't you expect to see the double crown of Egypt? This looks more like some Atef crown?

I think that Ramesses II is shown between Horus and Seth in a coronation scene (Abu Simbel if memory serves me), and he's standing in the presence of the gods while receiving the crown.
Sety is shown seated. Unless this is a god and Sety would have been kneeling before these three???
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Daughter_Of_SETI
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see what you're saying, Anneke. I've looked to see if I can find an original of that scene on any sites, but they all seem to be shop sites that say exactly the same thing. It doesn't seem as if there is an original. Sad I believe I've seen a coronation scene of Djehutymes III before where he was knelt in front of a seated Amun, whom was placing the double crown upon his head. I was under the impression that this was the way they were depicted, but it could be that the scene with Edjo and Nekhbet is in addition to this scene and is still part of the coronation. Idea These two goddesses being depicted at a coronation does make some sense due to the uniting of Upper and Lower Egypt.

anneke wrote:
These two godesses don't seem to be presenting Sety with a crown. And if he was being crowned, wouldn't you expect to see the double crown of Egypt? This looks more like some Atef crown?

It is listed as Seti I wearing the Atef crown. The Atef crown was worn in some religious ceremonies, and was in some cases considered the equivalent of the double crown, so maybe that explains why Seti I is wearing that instead of the double crown.

Here's some information (pdf)

anneke wrote:
I think that Ramesses II is shown between Horus and Seth in a coronation scene (Abu Simbel if memory serves me), and he's standing in the presence of the gods while receiving the crown.

I couldn't find one at Abu Simbel (not saying that there isn't one, there probably is), but here's a coronation scene from the Amun temple at Karnak, showing Ramses II receiving the double crown. Here! On the left sits Nekhbet with Horus standing behind her, and on the right sits Edjo with Thoth standing behind her.
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kat
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daughter of Seti wrote:

Quote:
Here's some information (pdf)


Thank you for the link! I hope you don't mind if I post it elsewhere?
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Daughter_Of_SETI
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course, Kat. That's fine. Very Happy
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daughter_Of_SETI wrote:

I couldn't find one at Abu Simbel (not saying that there isn't one, there probably is), but here's a coronation scene from the Amun temple at Karnak, showing Ramses II receiving the double crown. Here! On the left sits Nekhbet with Horus standing behind her, and on the right sits Edjo with Thoth standing behind her.


I'll have to look around for the other scene, because it's quite interesting.

But thanks for finding the coronation scene you provided. That one made me wonder if the pictures provided by our guest were maybe plaster copies that had somehow left out the hands of the gods presenting the crown?
In the scene you povided the goddesses are seated next to the king, but the gods are stretching out their hands like they have just put the crown in place.

I don't think I had ever seen this scene you provided before.

I always thought there weren't that many scenes depicting a coronation, but now I have heard of coronation scenes for Hatshepsut, Amenhotep III, a text about the coronation of Horemheb, a scene with Ramesses and then the one for Nefertari in Abu Simbel.
I wonder how many more there are out there?
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Daughter_Of_SETI
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that this may be the coronation scene you were referring to, Anneke: Here! It's still only a reproduction of the scene, but it states that it's from the south wall at Abu Simbel. Very Happy

Are those staffs that Horus and Seth are holding? I don't think I've ever seen any like them before. Idea
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messuy
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

here are some pictures of these "coronation" scenes

Abou Simbel
http://alain.guilleux.free.fr/abou_simbel/P1010291.jpg
Some comments
http://alain.guilleux.free.fr/abou_simbel/petit_temple_abou_simbel_ibshek.html

Karnak
http://alain.guilleux.free.fr/karnak/P1011365.jpg
and an other one, with Montu
http://alain.guilleux.free.fr/karnak/P1011366.jpg
Some comments
http://alain.guilleux.free.fr/karnak/karnak_salle_hypostyle.html

Abydos
http://alain.guilleux.free.fr/abydos/Pc040558.jpg
Some comments
http://alain.guilleux.free.fr/abydos/abydos_temple_sethi_7_chapelles_2.html

Alain
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