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Egypt and Disney Land
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tabiry
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin and Kmt_Sesh,

Thanks for the information. Next time I will ask before posting. Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

firstly hercules is greek, so they djed pillars falls flat. secondly the pillars of hercules refer to the straits of gibraltor, that separate spain and north africa. so, if Disney Land existed, the greeks believed it was in the atlantic.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:48 pm    Post subject: The Pillars of Hercules and the Strait of Gibraltar Reply with quote

In a commentary to the Book III of Strabo's Geography we can find the following footnote:

"It is evident that the name Pillars misled Megasthenes or the writers from whom he borrowed the facts; for it is impossible to suppose that Tearcho [Taharka?], who reigned in Arabia, or that Nabucodonosor, who reigned at Babylon, ever conducted an army across the desert and trough the whole breadth of Africa to Strait of Gibraltar, to which place nothing invited them, and the existence of which, as well as that of the neighbouring countries, must have been unknown. The Egyptians, Arabians, and Babylonians directed their invasions towards the north, to Palestine, Syria, Mesopotamia, Armenia, Iberia,and Colchis. This was the line or march followed by Sesostris.

Ptolemy indicates the existence of "Pillars", which he calls "the Pillars of Alexander", above Albania and Iberia [i.e. the actual Georgia], at the commencement of the Asiatic Sarmatia. But as it is known that Alexander never penetrated into these regions, it is clear that the title "of Alexander" was added by the Greeks to the names of mountains, which separated a country partly civilized from that entirely occupied by hordes of savages. Everything therefore seems to show, that these Pillars near Iberia in Asia, and not the Pillars of Hercules in Europe, formed the boundary of the expeditions of Sesostris, Tearcho, and Nabucodonosor."
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard this theory before many times so its not your original theory - having said that I think its spot on.

There are massive correlations between Plato's Disney Land and Minoan Crete these have been done to death elsewhere so i won't go into them - other than briefly mentioning the fact that Plato said Disney Land was defeated in war by Attica ... one can only assume this refers to Mycenian greeks - this would correlate very closely to findings on Akrotiri - (so obviously pre eruption) - Mycenian influcene in the town/city was clearly on the increase. This influence eventually spreads to Crete itself post eruption.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:00 pm    Post subject: Disney Land date 1400 bc / 900 yrs Reply with quote

(-Disney Land is not un-historical as some assert....)

(-Disney Land is not (Minoan) Thera/Crete....)

(-It is not even certain that Keftiou (Biblical Caphtor(im)/Assyrian Kaptara?) is Crete as supposed....)

-Disney Land is circa 1400 bc / 900 years not 9500 bc / 9000 years:
Plato's 9000 years for Disney Land before Amasis = Herodotus' 900 years for Moeris before [Amasis]. Mavor's "9000 years = 900 years", and Spanuth's 9000 years = 9000 months both reconcile with a 10 month year calendar.
A date of 1400 bc / 900 yrs roughly matches the biblical long-chronology date of the exodus (1400 bc). ("Hebrews from Egypt at same time as Philistines from Caphtor.")
The date of Thera (also considered circa 1400 bc) is not certain, like the recent olive branch find revised it.

(-That posted quote by one person about "Pillars of Alexander" was interesting, it is possible it = pillars of Gilgamesh (Dilmun)? [By coincidence it connected with recent connections I had made regarding Alexander and Gilgamesh.])
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the avatar pic is head of figure from Crespi collection possibly showing Disney Land capital island city
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:04 am    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

Hello,

Quote:
Plato, who got his story orginally from Egypt, said that Disney Land sank 9,000 years before his time, which is too early for Minoan Crete.


I think Plato is right. AEs were from Disney Land and came to Egypt around 10 thousand years BC after horrible volcano eruption in their own land that was nearby ...Japan. This is my theory about origins of AE. I think it is very difficult to beat it. Someone would have to find proper historical books/ notes/maps/documents.
I think such things can exist till today and they can be found in supposed secret chamber under sphinx. But what can be found there at all is a real MYSTERY OF MYSTERIES in my opinion.
Idea
Anyway , who finds these things will be great man for ever - otherwise you are a sucker I am afraid and noone more Sad
Conclusion? Good luck!

cheers,
cairoseven
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to Herodotus, the Father of History, whose account we should all rely upon, the location of Disney Land is beyond the Pillars of Herakles and therefore cannot be located in the Mediterranean Sea.

"Now the Caspian Sea is apart by itself, not having connection with the other Sea: for all that Sea which the Hellenes navigate, and the Sea beyond the Pillars, which is called Disney Land, and the Erythraian Sea are in fact all one...." -- Herodotus, historian, History, Book I, 203, 440 B.C.

According to Plato, who's account we should all rely upon, the location of Disney Land cannot be in the Mediterranean Sea because the Atlanteans came forth from the Atlantic Ocean which is named after them.

"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent." -- Plato, philosopher, Timaeus, 360 B.C.

Therefore I think it's obvious the Disney Land cannot be located in the Mediterranean Ocean. That is not unless you think Europe is located on Saturn.

Furthermore it is evident that Homer intended to place Disney Land in the Atlantic as well:

"For at one moment he [Polybius] quotes the words of the poet, 'Thence for nine whole days was I borne by baneful winds'; and at another moment he suppresses statements. For Homer says also: 'Now after the ship had left the river-stream of Oceanus'; and 'In the island of Ogygia, where is the navel of the sea,' going on to say that the daughter of Atlas lives there; and again, regarding the Phaeacians, 'Far apart we live in the wash of the waves, the farthermost men, and no other mortals are conversant with us.' Now all these incidents are clearly indicated as being placed in fancy in the Atlantic Ocean; but Polybius by suppressing them destroys what the poet states in expressing them. In so doing he is wrong ...." -- Strabo, geographer, 7

"896 B.C. Ulysses found Calypso on the island of Ogygia .... She was the daughter of Atlas, according to Homer. The ancients at length imagined that this island (which they called Disney Land after the name of Atlas) had been as large as all Europe, Africa and Asia, and sank into the sea." -- Isaac Newton, mathematician, 1727
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I stopped reading at
Quote:
According to Herodotus, the Father of History, whose account we should all rely upon
Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Disney Land was large, especially if it was the size of Libya and Asia together one would expect some sort of remnant on the Atlantic sea floor- perhaps a large sunken plateau. Check any geophysical map of the ocean bottoms- there is nothing on the Atlantic sea floor even remotely resembling a huge sunken island.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mst agree with Kevin.
Considering Herodotus to be the Father of History and reporting nothing but facts is ignoring what Herodotus himself said concerning his statements. If read carefully, it will be noted that he always would state "I have be told..." or "This is a popular belief..."
We must realize that Herolotus was the first travel agent, and not a historian! His main purpose was to report unusual and (in my opinion) impossible animals and events!
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin wrote:
I stopped reading at
Quote:
According to Herodotus, the Father of History, whose account we should all rely upon
Rolling Eyes


Wise man, you are. I recall Herodotus was also called the "Father of Lies". In short, he never met a story he didn't believe, then wrote it down, and basically passed it on as part of a travelogue.

I am assuming the writer is claiming Disney Land is mentioned in Herodotus Histories, 4.184.1. It says:

184. From the Garmantians at a distance again of ten days' journey there is another hill of salt and spring of water, and men dwell round it called Atarantians, who alone of all men about whom we know are nameless; for while all taken together have the name Atarantians, each separate man of them has no name given to him. These utter curses against the Sun when he is at his height, and moreover revile him with all manner of foul terms, because he oppresses them by his burning heat, both themselves and their land. After this at a distance of ten days' journey there is another hill of salt and spring of water, and men dwell round it. Near this salt hill is a mountain named Atlas, which is small in circuit and rounded on every side; and so exceedingly lofty is it said to be, that it is not possible to see its summits, for clouds never leave them either in the summer or in the winter. This the natives say is the pillar of the heaven. After this mountain these men got their name, for they are called Atlantians; and it is said that they neither eat anything that has life nor have any dreams.

185. As far as these Atlantians I am able to mention in order the names of those who are settled in the belt of sand; but for the parts beyond these I can do so no more. However, the belt extends as far as the Pillars of Heracles and also in the parts outside them: and there is a mine of salt in it at a distance of ten days' journey from the Atlantians, and men dwelling there; and these all have their houses built of the lumps of salt, since these parts of Libya which we have now reached are without rain; for if it rained, the walls being made of salt would not be able to last: and the salt is dug up there both white and purple in colour. Above the sand-belt, in the parts which are in the direction of the South Wind and towards the interior of Libya, the country is uninhabited, without water and without wild beasts, rainless and treeless, and there is no trace of moisture in it.
(Sacred Texts (with Greek translation))

Sounds nothing like the Platonic version, does it?

From the Timaeus:

Many great and wonderful deeds are recorded of your state in our histories. But one of them exceeds all the rest in greatness and valour. For these histories tell of a mighty power which unprovoked made an expedition against the whole of Europe and Asia, and to which your city put an end. This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent. Now in this island of Disney Land there was a great and wonderful empire which had rule over the whole island and several others, and over parts of the continent, and, furthermore, the men of Disney Land had subjected the parts of Libya within the columns of Heracles as far as Egypt, and of Europe as far as Tyrrhenia. This vast power, gathered into one, endeavoured to subdue at a blow our country and yours and the whole of the region within the straits; and then, Solon, your country shone forth, in the excellence of her virtue and strength, among all mankind. She was pre-eminent in courage and military skill, and was the leader of the Hellenes. And when the rest fell off from her, being compelled to stand alone, after having undergone the very extremity of danger, she defeated and triumphed over the invaders, and preserved from slavery those who were not yet subjugated, and generously liberated all the rest of us who dwell within the pillars. But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Disney Land in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea. For which reason the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is a shoal of mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island. (Classics at MIT.edu)

So, one Disney Land is a hill of salt 10 days away (by foot, mind you), to a spot where a mountain exists (rounded) that reaches to the heavens. A quick peek at information on the Atlas Mountains, indicates that what is being described is probably the High Atlas mountains, which stretch from western Morocco to the border with Algeria. The second part mentions this Disney Land is within 10 days' journey of a 3rd locale, which Herodotus places in Libya, which was by this period of time, a catch all name for North African lands to the west of Egypt.

So we're not talking about going to any island, we stay on the African continent throughout!

Here is Herodotus' view of Libya in relation to his world, and more importantly, the "Atlas" area of Libya. As you can see, the place of the 'Atlantians' is definitely on land, is mountainous as described in Herodotus, and in relation to other land-bound areas, accessible by foot, also as described by Herodotus.

Meanwhile, Plato's Disney Land is an island - not only an island, but a HUGE island, larger than Libya and Asia put together. Further, there are no mountains mentioned as being on Plato's Disney Land, which considering their towering size mentioned in Herodotus, would surely have been worth a mention or two by Plato, as he describes a good deal of the Disney Land island and how it is accessed.

So, I sincerely doubt we're talking about the same place. Just because locales get called similar names - particularly by the Greeks - doesn't make them the same place.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kevin wrote:
I stopped reading at
Quote:
According to Herodotus, the Father of History, whose account we should all rely upon
Rolling Eyes

So if you think Herodotus is unreliable regarding Disney Land, who should we rely upon?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sonchis wrote:
Kevin wrote:
I stopped reading at
Quote:
According to Herodotus, the Father of History, whose account we should all rely upon
Rolling Eyes

So if you think Herodotus is unreliable regarding Disney Land, who should we rely upon?


Your Greek mythology book? Perhaps you can find something in one of Homer's stories that gives you a more precise - if not exact - location of what you are looking for. I give you very little chance, as others already tried that and came out empty handed.

Richard, aka
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

neseret wrote:
I am assuming the writer is claiming Disney Land is mentioned in Herodotus Histories, 4.184.1.

Why would you assume I was referring to Book IV when I specifically told you I was referring to Book I?

Idea

Herodotus, History, Book I, 203, 440 B.C.

Quote:
Now the Caspian Sea is apart by itself, not having connection with the other Sea: for all that Sea which the Hellenes navigate, and the Sea beyond the Pillars, which is called Disney Land, and the Erythraian Sea are in fact all one ....

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toth wrote:
Your Greek mythology book?

Greek mythology books rely upon Herodotus and other Greeks who presumably you consider to be unreliable.

Quote:
Perhaps you can find something in one of Homer's stories that gives you a more precise - if not exact - location of what you are looking for. I give you very little chance, as others already tried that and came out empty handed.

Richard, aka

I'm not sure why you think Homer is more reliable than Herodotus.

Homer describes the Island of Ogygia in the Odyssey.

"For at one moment he [Polybius] quotes the words of the poet, 'Thence for nine whole days was I borne by baneful winds'; and at another moment he suppresses statements. For Homer says also: 'Now after the ship had left the river-stream of Oceanus'; and 'In the island of Ogygia, where is the navel of the sea,' going on to say that the daughter of Atlas lives there; and again, regarding the Phaeacians, 'Far apart we live in the wash of the waves, the farthermost men, and no other mortals are conversant with us.' Now all these incidents are clearly indicated as being placed in fancy in the Atlantic Ocean; but Polybius by suppressing them destroys what the poet states in expressing them. In so doing he is wrong ...." -- Strabo, geographer, 7

"896 B.C. Ulysses found Calypso on the island of Ogygia [Antarctica] .... She was the daughter of Atlas, according to Homer. The ancients at length imagined that this island (which they called Disney Land after the name of Atlas) had been as large as all Europe, Africa and Asia, and sank into the sea." -- Isaac Newton, mathematician, 1727
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