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hieroglyphic of a horse????
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Maatkare
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The word "Htr" for horse comes from the verb "Htr", which means "to yoke together". Judging from Coptic, "horse" was vocalized "Hto". Another common word for horse was "ssmt", close to Semitic "sus". Yes, that is why there are so many determinatives in Egyptian writing. Many words were spelled with the same basic consonants and only the dets. (and the context) provided their exact meaning. However, as it happens, "spelled alike" didn't necessarily mean "said alike".
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dragonlady
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I understand it - we have a hard time with pronounciation as it is because basically there are no vowels in the words. So we have to insert them.
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Maatkare
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well--not exactly. There can be no language without vowels; they were just not written in the hieroglyphic writing system. But, much later, when the ultimate stage of the language, called Coptic, began to be written with a modified Greek alphabet, the vowels were included. So we get a good idea from that how the words were vocalized and also from contemporary foreign texts, like the Amarna Letters, which wrote out Egyptian names, toponyms and terms in cuneiform, which is a kind of syllabary--consonant plus vowel, like "ma" or "ba". Sorry to say that adding the default vowel "e" between the consonants gives absolutely no idea of how Egyptian was pronounced. For example, you can write "nefer" but it was pronounced "nofe" with a short "o". Final /r/ was reduced to a vowel sound or just dropped--like in "posh" British English.
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2004 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okido...
Nothing to do with the hieroglyph or translation issues. Just horses.



Now there's a first for me...
Never seen an Egyptian horseback rider before.
From the same site:

Quote:
Maspero published an illustration of the most frequently cited horseback rider in ancient Egypt, even though it now resides in Bologna, in Life in Ancient Egypt and Assyria in 1902. Maspero's image was drawn by Faucher-Gudin, from a photo taken by Flinders Petrie. The bas-relief came from the Memphite tomb initially built by Haremheb when he was Tutankhamen's general. A horseback rider gallops between workers and soldiers.

The rider wears a brief bottom garment (a kilt?) and a wig. He holds the right rein and a whip, baton, or something high in his right hand, and the left rein way back in his left hand. The horse wears only the bridle and reins. What an odd gait the horse employs compared to typical Egyptian monuments, neither prancing nor leaping in the stylized gallop of battle scenes. He barely touches the ground with only one foreleg somewhat as a horse actually does during one phase of a gallop. Ancient Egyptian artists observed detail keenly but had no motion picture still frames of galloping horses to study.

The rider's awkward seat towards the rump has prompted diverse speculation by writers, especially assumptions that Egyptians were novices at horseback riding. Maspero thought this scene was a person learning to ride. The horse's gait does invite speculation: is he a chariot horse unaccustomed to a rider, a fractious colt, or an indignant respondant to poor horsemanship? Perhaps the horse is wary of the activity to its rear. Behind the horse in the scene beyone this excerpt a group of workmen carry a huge beam over their shoulders right at the horse's eye level. The horse's flagged tail suggests a state of alert. If his second front leg were on the ground I'd think he was kicking at the crew following too closely at his heels with the huge beam.

I assume that this rider's seat is an instance of artistic constraints which challenged each artist to represent all the tack so as not to cut across the person's image. Adjusting the rider farther back on the horse provides space to illustrate the various equipment used between the high carried neck and the rider. I.E.S. Edwards notes that Tutankhamun's artists (Treasures of Tutankhamun 1976 Metropolitan Museum of Art) solved the problem differently on each of three pieces depicting the king drawing his bow. In similar manner, rather than hide the whip behind the horse's neck, Horemheb's artist chose to picture it above the left rein. He still had to compromise and allow the left rein to cut across the rider's body. Such are the constraints of reducing a three dimensional world to two dimensions on stone.

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Segereh
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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anneke
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Segereh wrote:



LOL You just posted that stuff about the horse so you could follow it up with the crapping horse smiley didn't you?
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I admit... the deed...

Tear up the planks...
Hear... HEAR...
It's the beating of his hideous heart...
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow...
I don't even need more than one message to go astray.
Actually that one would've fit in the "Goths" thread. Smile
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anneke
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, thought I recognized EA Poe in there Very Happy

Still nice to see the horsemanship. We do hope that was not their best Shocked
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still, I thought it was surprising.
You'd expect, being from H's tomb it would've gotten more attention.
Apparently there's a battle axe as well, showing a horseback rider.
It's mentioned on the same site. Did u ever hear about this?
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anneke
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No until Maatkare mentioned it I had never thought about the fact that the only horses I had really seen had been pulling chariots.

I had never seen an Egyptian riding one. I will have to look at the book by Martin again about the tombs in Saqqara.
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almostascribe
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there is a nother word for horse ive come across recently smmw with a horse determinative and is usually close to the word for chariot ( wrrrt )
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I expect that to be your very last post?
Else you'll have to change your login. Smile
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anneke
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL was wondering the same thing.
Going to change your name to "Imascribe"?

Nice to have you back again btw almost-not quite there-soon will be scribe.
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2004 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
Going to change your name to "Imascribe"?

This comes from a professor... Rolling Eyes
If he logs back in, he'll be a "slave" again.
Make it "Citizen"? Smile
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