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The Lost Tomb by Kent Weeks - Bookclub
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Daughter_Of_SETI
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmt_sesh wrote:
...This may simply mean the little wig fitted onto shabtis and other small statues. Sometimes the wigs were inlays or entirely separate pieces.

Oh, okay, that makes sense. I never realised before that ushabtis and statuettes sometimes had their wigs made from seperate pieces; I just assumed they were usually all one piece. Thanks for the explanation, Seshi. Wink
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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It's a wonder that they managed to get any work done on the tomb once the hoopla started. It's appalling that Mubarak's visit meant that hurried digging took place.


One must put on a show for the dignitaries, mustn't one? Rolling Eyes

A good example is the excavation of KV46 (Yuya and Tjuya), which Quibell and Davis discovered in 1905. During the clearing of this well-stocked tomb, a family of European aristocrats stopped by to visit and a young woman in attendance was weary and wished to rest. Rather than ask where it would be best to sit, she took it upon herself to slump down in this handy chair. It happened to be the throne of Queen Sitamun and one of the prizes found in KV46.

Lord only knows how it didn't crumble into splinters under the woman's weight. This chair is in the Tut exhibit and was one of my favorite artifacts to see.

Maybe it's a good thing nothing so splendid was pulled out of KV5. Given the manners of the average Western tourist, some doofus in a straw hat and a Hawaiian shirt probably would've felt obliged to pop open a beer and sit down on it. It would then have been necessary for Weeks and his team to inter the doofus in KV5 permanently, and we can't have that, can we? Razz
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BobManske
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="kmt_sesh"]
Quote:

A good example is the excavation of KV46 (Yuya and Tjuya), which Quibell and Davis discovered in 1905. During the clearing of this well-stocked tomb, a family of European aristocrats stopped by to visit and a young woman in attendance was weary and wished to rest. Rather than ask where it would be best to sit, she took it upon herself to slump down in this handy chair. It happened to be the throne of Queen Sitamun and one of the prizes found in KV46.
P


I understood that the woman who sat in the chair was the Empress of France Eugenie, Napoleon III's wife.
So I look on the web and found
http://www.egyptancient.net/quibelle.htm
where it says (with several misspellings and lost punctuations:

"On afternoon Quibell, busy in the final phase of emptying the tomb, receives the visit at on old lady with ordinary clothes with a big hat, accompanied by a French who calls her “Your Majesty” Quibell, although he doesn’t know the woman, hearing the title, let’s her ago into the tomb, although it’s almost empty and so there is nothing to let her sit on.
But she sees this chair of Sitamun and sits on it declaring it is perfect.
Fortunately the very ancient find resists to the weight, under the stupefied and embarrassed archaeologists who don’t dare to contradict the woman. Only later Quibell will get information on the mysterious “Majesty”. She was the Empress Eugenia of France, the same who thirty years earlier had presided over as a honor guest to the ceremony of the opening of the Suer Canal.
So, 32 centuries later, an Empress still sits on that royal chair..."

I don't know where the "Suer Canal" is but I don't think I want to go there.

Bob
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Sesen
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy I've really loved reading through this topic - its a lovely idea.
A year ago I borrowed this book from a friend and absolutely could'nt put it down till I'd finished it. A real snatch and grab style to capture the unsuspecting reader. It was with great regret I had to give the book back and have never got round to getting my own copy. Regreting that now but I did take notes and you guys are great for refreshing memories.

Not long before reading the book I was lucky enough to have the opportunity to go up in a hot air balloon and it really is a fabulous way to get a birds eye view of the layout of the major part of the necropolis and the proximity of one temple to the next.
The Ramesseum is indeed very large and alot more work is being done there. Interestingly it is bang next door to Amenhotep II's temple which in turn is virtually spitting distance from Thutmose III's.
Here's a few photos
pic 1
On the left is Thutmose III, across the road are the 'flatter' remains of Amenhotep II's temple and clearly marked by a mudbrick wall is the Ramesseum.
pic 2 East west axis of the temple with the first pylon on the left.
pic 3 View of the first pylon along the length of the temple.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great pictures, Sesen.
Thank you.

Bob
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BobManske wrote:
Quote:
I understood that the woman who sat in the chair was the Empress of France Eugenie, Napoleon III's wife.


Thanks a lot for sharing that, Bob. I heard this story while the Tut exhibit was in Chicago but had forgotten many of the particulars. I saved the text in your link to a PDF file. Who wrote that?

Sesen wrote:
Quote:
Not long before reading the book I was lucky enough to have the opportunity to go up in a hot air balloon and it really is a fabulous way to get a birds eye view of the layout of the major part of the necropolis...


Excellent photographs! So these are pics you yourself took while on a hot air balloon tour? What a thrill that must've been! Wow, Weeks really started something special with his balloon surveys. That's something I've always wanted to experience.
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Daughter_Of_SETI
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CHAPTER 8

“Hundreds of people, from colleagues to young children, wrote letters to suggest how and where we should dig.”

This is a quote from the first page of the eighth chapter. It must be a really special feeling to know that you’ve touched the hearts of so many youngsters, so much so that they make the effort to write to you about it. It must make one feel like a bit of a rock star! Cool LOL I bet the main reason that Weeks’s colleagues were contacting him was that they were as jealous as hell of his new discovery! Mr. Green I bet it’s quite disorientating when you’re getting advice from people left, right, and centre, though…advice where people are often contradicting each other, too.

It’s interesting that Ramses II was only supposed to have added the “Setepenra” title to his Throne name in his second year. I would’ve thought that if that were the case, then the cartouche with the “Setepenra” part (like this, or like this) would be quite rare, as I’m sure he did most of his building later in his reign?? Did Ramses II often leave the “Setepenra” out of his name later in his reign to make it look neater in certain inscriptions?

It was nice to hear about the modern Festival of Abu el-Haggag resembling the ancient Opet Festival, as well. pharaohthumb
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Daughter_Of_SETI
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wrote:
I bet it’s quite disorientating when you’re getting advice from people left, right, and centre, though…advice where people are often contradicting each other, too.

I meant to write, advice where people were probably often contradicting each other, too. I don't know that they were contradicting each other! Laughing
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BobManske
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmt_sesh wrote:

Thanks a lot for sharing that, Bob. I heard this story while the Tut exhibit was in Chicago but had forgotten many of the particulars. I saved the text in your link to a PDF file. Who wrote that?


I don't know who wrote it, but the site is at http://www.egyptancient.net/.
It carries Egyptian Dreams advertising.

I also heard the Empress Eugenie story at the Tut exhibition in Chicago. It must have been on the walk-around headset.

Bob
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I also heard the Empress Eugenie story at the Tut exhibition in Chicago. It must have been on the walk-around headset.


That's too funny. It was in the exhibit where I heard it, while a bunch of us were standing around Sitamun's chair. A fellow docent told us all the tale. LOL Maybe you were there in that same bunch of people. You might recognize some of us docents from this recent photo. Yeah, right. Razz

Those audio-tour headsets are very popular in many museums now. I can't stand them, myself. Most of us docents dislike them--they make us feel superfluous.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weeks reveals how Ramesses was groomed for greatness from a very young age. There's the inscription translation on page 149 where we're told that as a boy of ten years Ramesses "acted as chief of the army." Weeks points out how this could refer to "people" just as easily as "army." It's well understood that the Egyptian term mSa can just as easily mean an expedition or group of men brought together for a common task. Still, it reveals how even as a boy Ramesses was being prepared for the future. It's little wonder that with a father like Seti I, Ramesses II was destined to be so great a monarch.

Like Daughter_Of_SETI I also enjoyed Week's mention of the Abu el-Haggag festival. It's a reminder of how even in a very traditional Muslim culture, vestiges of the ancient days still remain. I've met a number of Egyptians and Sudanese over the years who've offered examples of ancient traditions blending with their Islamic heritage.

Quote:
I would’ve thought that if that were the case, then the cartouche with the “Setepenra” part (like this, or like this) would be quite rare, as I’m sure he did most of his building later in his reign??


I'm just a little confused here. Nothing new about that, right? Razz Did you mean to write "the cartouche without the 'Setepenra' part"? Both of the examples in your links do not contain "Setepenre."

I think Ramesses II was an active builder from the very beginning. I'm pretty sure he started his small temple at Abydos very early in his reign, and in fact the cartouche on the right in this photo from that temple is like your two samples--no "Setepenre." But early in his reign he also started building his two most famous monuments, the Ramesseum and Abu Simbel. On the plinth of the left statue in this photo from the Ramesseum you can see the throne name with Setepenre incorporated. Similarly, you can see Setepenre in the right cartouche at the bottom of this photo, from Abu Simbel. Granted, the Abu Simbel temples were not dedicated until the 24th year of his reign and not completely finished till year 35, but it's believed Ramesses II started these two temples early in his reign.

It's an interesting question you pose. I don't think leaving out "Setepenre" would've had anything to do with wanting an inscription to look neater, as that would be defaming the god Re for the sake of convenience; that is, unless by "neater" you mean limited space for the artisan to work with in certain inscriptions. That I can see happening, but otherwise I don't know what would govern the inclusion or exclusion of an epithet.
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Daughter_Of_SETI
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmt_sesh wrote:
Daughter_Of_SETI has already kicked off the discussion of this chapter but I like to put these headers here so I can find the beginnings of chapter discussions easier, should I feel the need to backtrack. I know, I'm fussy.

Hey, seeing as you are the Moderator here and all, you could always go back to my earlier post and add the title "Chapter 8:" to it...wouldn't want you to feel disorientated when you're reading back over the thread in the future, would we?! Wink

kmt_sesh wrote:
I'm just a little confused here. Nothing new about that, right? Did you mean to write "the cartouche without the 'Setepenra' part"?

Sorry, your utter confusion is completely my fault. Embarassed Yes, I meant to write without instead of with. Gees, it would seem like I made quite a few mistakes in that post...I must've been having a really bad day! Laughing

kmt_sesh wrote:
It's an interesting question you pose. I don't think leaving out "Setepenre" would've had anything to do with wanting an inscription to look neater, as that would be defaming the god Re for the sake of convenience; that is, unless by "neater" you mean limited space for the artisan to work with in certain inscriptions. That I can see happening, but otherwise I don't know what would govern the inclusion or exclusion of an epithet.

I was speaking of that or just convenience, but I guess at the end of the day, th pharaoh would want his official titles written in full...whatever they may've been at the time. Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Hey, seeing as you are the Moderator here and all, you could always go back to my earlier post and add the title "Chapter 8:" to it..


That was a good idea. Thanks for mentioning it. I did as you suggested and removed the heading from my own post. Wink

Quote:
Sorry, your utter confusion is completely my fault. Embarassed Yes, I meant to write without instead of with.


No problem. I figured that's what you meant but wanted to be sure. I'm usually utterly confused anyway so it's not your fault. Razz

Quote:
Gees, it would seem like I made quite a few mistakes in that post...I must've been having a really bad day! Laughing


Aw, it wasn't a bad day for you, really. It's merely what happens when someone gets to be elderly. Very Happy

Don't hurt me! I was only kidding! I know you're not elderly. Yet. Anxious
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Daughter_Of_SETI
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmt_sesh wrote:
Don't hurt me! I was only kidding! I know you're not elderly. Yet.

Oh, but I am. Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad The years aren't creeping on now; they're galloping! Surprised
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DOS wrote:
Quote:
Oh, but I am. The years aren't creeping on now; they're galloping!
Laughing That happens to you too? The galloping years in my life have now advanced into a crazed race like a thoroughbred on speed Wink

Quote:
It was nice to hear about the modern Festival of Abu el-Haggag resembling the ancient Opet Festival, as well

I liked that bit too. I asked about the boat Weeks mentions and it seems its either too fragile or has been demolished now - depending on who I spoke too. Either way there's no sign of the boat anymore - which is a shame.
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