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How many female Pharaoh in Ancient Egypt's History?
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Gerard.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe you as my time was too short too find the source.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Herodotus thought that this was Sesostris. But this is not an Egyptian monument and it does not look like an Egyptian monument!

And he told us that he saw Egyptian monuments in Egypt. But he didn't understand the difference between this monument and Egyptian monuments!

I think he never saw so called Sesostris Monument (King Tarkasnawa Monument) in Karabel.Maybe he heard something about it from his friends.

http://www.hittitemonuments.com/karabel/
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Herodote is known from antiquity to have borrowed from Hekataios of Millet. However he may have seen this relief of King Tarkasnawa as he was raised in that area. Well we are going off topic.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think he didn't see it because he didn't know the difference between Egyptian art and Anatolian art!

The things he wrote about the other kings are not so true! So Queen Nitocris did not exist!
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Herodote may have seen the relief in his youth at a time he did not know Egypt. Years latter, the details of the relief had probably fade in his memory and, as such a relief is uncommon in Turkey, he did not think twice and believe it was an egyptian one.

In Manetho there is a Queen Nitôcris at the end of the VI dyn and a Nitiqret in the Royal Canon of Turin at the same place. The fact we found no artifacts bearing her name, make sense with Herodote story. Someone who plan to kill his "brother" murderers and then comit suicide, do not think to let his/her name in writing. On the other hand the relatives of Nitocris victims may have erase her name.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there are lots of egyptian king lists from the 19th dynasty. so they believed she existed. and dont some of these stories remind you of the queen at the end of the 12th dynasty? sister of amenemhat IV? avenging her brothers death, i thought that was her.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daughter_Of_SETI wrote:
I think these are the possible female pharaohs:


Cleopatra VII (lots of scholars don't seem to include Cleopatra in the list of possibilities, though Confused ).


that's probably because she wasn't native egyptian Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why Nefertiti can be classified as a pharaoh? I thought that was only assumption, or it's because she wore every headwear that only pharaoh can wear, and had the pose that only pharaoh can pose? Idea
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MERYT-NEITH (1st Dynasty c.3000 BC)
Meryt-Neith is believed to have ruled at the start of the dynastic period, possibly the third ruler of the dynasty, and is known principally for her funerary monuments. Her reign lasted less than three years. Her name means 'Beloved of the Goddess Neith' and she has a funerary monument and solar boat at Sakkara. This boat would enable her spirit to travel to the Afterlife, a honour reserved only for a king. She also has another funerary tomb at Abydos. Both these tombs are surrounded by over fifty graves of attendants and servants, demonstrating that she was buried with the power of a king and was full honours of a powerful ruler.



NITOCRIS (6th Dynasty 2148-44 BC)
Nitocris came to the throne during much dispute, when there was no apparent male heir. But she has become entangled with romantic legend and myth, so much so, that very little true facts are known about her reign. She would be remembered later in Egyptian history as 'The bravest and most beautiful woman of her time'. No structures were commissioned by her and she is left unmentioned in many Egyptian records. She is, however, referred to in the Turin King-list, by the Greek traveller Herodotos who wrote that she caused the deaths of hundreds of Egyptians in revenge for the killing of her brother, the king. This was done by inviting all those guilt of his murder to a banquet then, when the party was in full swing, she opened flood gates and let the River Nile in on them, drowning them all. According to legend she then flung herself into a room of ashes to escape her punishment. Again, her reign lasted less than three years.



SOBEKNOFRU (Neferusobek) (12th Dynasty ?1767-1759 BC)
Sobeknofru ruled only briefly at a time of civil unrest, followed by a period of anarchy. Monuments which record the troubled times have allowed Egyptologist to piece together her reign. Manetho states she was probably the sister of Ammenemes, whom she succeeded and he tells us that her reign lasted for 3 years and 10 months. She is mentioned in the Turin 'List of Kings' and is mentioned at Karnak Temple (Luxor) and Saqqara (near Cairo). Portraits show her wearing the royal head cloth and kilt over her female attire, a way of declaring that she is as fit to rule as any man.



HATSHEPSUT (18th Dynasty c.1473-1458 BC)
Hatshepsut was the daughter of Thutmose I. When Thutmose died his son Thutmose II succeeded him and, as was the custom, he married his stepsister, Hatshepsut. When Thutmose II also died, around 1479 BC, his son Thutmose III became Pharaoh. However as the new pharaoh was a minor, Hatshepsut stepped in as his regent. Thutmose III and Hatshepsut ruled together until 1473 BC, when she eventually appointed herself Pharaoh. She used a number of strategies to legitimate her role, including the claim that the god Amun-Ra had visited her mother while she was pregnant, which made her a divine child. Hatshepsut readily assumed traditional kingly regalia, including several male attributes such as; a fake beard, male clothing, as well as having herself drawn and treated like a man. During her fifteen year reign she mounted at least one military campaign and initiated a number of impressive building projects, including her superb funerary temple at Deir el-Bahari. One major achievement, the expedition to the Land of Punt, is shown on the temple walls. Believed to be located near the Red Sea, is shows ebony, ivory, myrrh saplings, animal skins, gold, perfumes and exotic animals etc, being brought back from this expedition. Another remarkable achievement, also chronicled through illustration shows two huge granite obelisks being transported on the River Nile from Aswan to the Temple of Karnak. Hatshepsut was a powerful and admirable woman who brought great stability to Egypt, however she mysteriously disappears around 1458 BC, when Thutmose III regained his title as Pharaoh. It is thought he despised Hatshepsut for keeping him from the throne and ordered all reference to her be wiped from Egyptian history. Hatshepsut's mummy has never been found and her name and images were nearly lost forever.



NEFERTITI (18th Dynasty c.1336 BC)
Nefertiti was the beautiful wife of Pharaoh Akhenaton who was also known as Amenophis IV and the Heritic king. They couple reigned for 17 years toward the end of the so-called Amarna period. A famous sculptured head of Nefertiti was found at Amarna, which showed her remarkable beauty. (Click here to see the bust) She was actively involved in her husband's revolutionary policies and is often shown wearing kingly regalia and officiating at his side. It is believed that after the death of Akhenaten she ruled independently around 1336 BC. Although this is by no means certain and I have only inlcuded her name here as a POSSIBLE female pharaoh, not a certainty.



TWOSRET (Tausert) (19th Dynasty c.1187-1185 BC)
As with Nitocris and Sobeknofru above, Twosret's reign was during troubled times and lasted less than three years. She was the last Pharaoh of the 19th dynasty. Tausert was the very beloved wife of Seti II even though she was not his first wife and it is believed that it was Seti II who ordered her tomb to be built in the Valley of the Kings; an honour given to very few queens. Again the evidence is sketchy, however the general consensus is that, upon the death of her husband Queen Twosret became co-regent with the king's young son, (Ramesses-Siptah), by another of his wives, and then after his death (approximately six years later) ascended to the throne herself, proclaiming herself Pharaoh.



CLEOPATRA (c 51 BC)
It was over one thousand years after Twosret, during the Ptolemaic period, that Cleopatra reigned as Pharaoh. However, as the Ptolemaic kings were essentially Greek invaders, Cleopatra, unlike those mentioned above, was not of true Egyptian lineage. Descended from Macedonians, who had ruled Egypt ever since the death of Alexander the Great, some 250 years earlier, Cleopatra VII was born to Ptolemy XII in 69 B.C. She came to the throne when she was just 17 year old in 51 B.C. It's thought that she ruled jointly with her father, then after he died, with her younger brother, Ptolemy XIII. It is said that Cleopatra captivated Julius Caesar (Roman) when he came to Alexandria and in order to assume sole power over Egypt she asked for Julius Caesar's help, which he willingly gave. However their relationship was doomed and when her liaison with Mark Anthony, another powerful roman, also ended disastrously, Cleopatra, also known as the "Queen of the Nile." famously committed suicide in 30 BC. Not only was Cleopatra the last female to be called pharaoh, her demise also brought to an end 3,000 years of dynastic rule.


GENERAL COMMENTS
Almost certainly, these female Pharaohs were all of royal blood and were at one time queen-consort to their husbands. It is also believed that most of them did not produce heirs and therefore, upon the death of their husbands/brothers/fathers, they ascended to the throne.

Being a royal woman in Ancient Egypt obviously did not exclude you from the throne, unlike the vast majority of kingdoms at that time. Women in Ancient Egypt had great advantages over their contemporaries in other cultures, such as Mesopotamia and Greece. Egyptian women were allowed to own property and hold official positions. Women could also inherit their wealth and take any disputes to court and defend their legal rights. As Heroditus, a famous Greek historian pointed out, much to his horror, that Egyptian women were free to move about in public, unlike her Greece counterpart who were confined to her home. However, it is general regarded that if a woman did become pharaoh it was most likely because she had the backing of some very influential men upon whom she relied to help her maintain power.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Osiris II wrote:
NITOCRIS (6th Dynasty 2148-44 BC)
<..> No structures were commissioned by her and she is left unmentioned in many Egyptian records. She is, however, referred to in the Turin King-list, by the Greek traveller Herodotos who wrote that she caused the deaths of hundreds of Egyptians in revenge for the killing of her brother, the king.


I recently read an interesting article by Percy Newberry who speculated that Nitocris was Queen Neith, who was a Queen from the period right after Pepi I.

The theory goes that Neith was the sister of Nemtyemsaf I, who followed Pepi I on the throne. Nemtyemsaf I only ruled for a very short time and he died at a very young age.

Pepi II then came to the throne, but maybe Neith would have been regent? (Something like this would have had to happen to make the theory work Smile )

Queen Neith was buried in a pyramid near that of Pepi II. Her pyramid is the first Queen's pyramid to be iinscribed with pyramid texts and several model boats were buried near her pyramid.

I'm personally not convinced but I thought it was an interesting theory.

The problems are clearly that Neith may be close to Neith-iqret (another way of writing Nitocris) but it's not the same.
There was a regent for Pepi II, but that's usually thought to be his mother Ankhes-meryre II (= Ankhesenpepi II). According to a statue showing Pepi on his mother's lap.
I'm not sure of the timing either. Neith would not have lived at e very end of the 6th dynasty I think.

Very Happy Just thought I would throw that info out there for fun.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some remarks on Meryt-Neith and Nitocris:
1) Meryt-Neith: isn't considered as an independant ruler ('king') but as a regent of her son Den. She does have a tomb at Abydos resembling those of the kings but has no funerary enclosure in the valley. No royal seals either.
2) Nitocris: no archaeological evidence of her existence has been found, most egyptologists (if not all) think she probably never existed and consider her an invention of Herodotus. In the past some suggested that Nitocris was the same as Neith-Iquert but it has been demonstrated that this was a male ruler from the eigth dynasty.

A similar role as the one of Meryt-Neith is sometimes attributed to Neithotep (wife of Narmer, mother of Hor-Aha?), but there is no consensus amongst egyptologists concerning the interpretation of the evidence.
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Osiris II
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems now that the inscription, on which all arguments for her existence is based, was re-assembled incorrectly.
There is no actual evidence of Nitocris, except a mention of her by Herodotus. (Whose "truths" are little more than legends)
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

but they have been proven to have history in them. maybe the greeks got her mixed up with some near eastern or classical mythology?
it does look more classical than egyptian when you think of it. :lol:
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was just watching a show on National Geographic Channel about Cleopatra (that of course is Cleopatra VII, last ruler of Egypt).

The narrator mentioned that--apparently including Cleopatra?--there were altogether only five female pharaohs during the many generations of royals who ruled Egypt.

Maddeningly, he failed to say who the other four are!!! Evil or Very Mad

Anyone, one of them would obviously be the final Cleopatra.

Hatshepsut, obviously.

Nefertiti, probably.

Beyond that, I'm not completely sure. Confused

(Clearly I was asleep during my ancient history classes, lol!)
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:47 am    Post subject: Five Queen-Rulers of Egypt Reply with quote

Nefertiabet wrote:

The narrator mentioned that--apparently including Cleopatra?--there were altogether only five female pharaohs during the many generations of royals who ruled Egypt.

Maddeningly, he failed to say who the other four are!!! Evil or Very Mad

Anyone, one of them would obviously be the final Cleopatra.

Hatshepsut, obviously.

Nefertiti, probably.

Beyond that, I'm not completely sure. Confused


Female rulers in Egypt usually appeared at the end of dynastic lines, ruling when the males have pretty much died out. Based upon this, we can say there have been at least 5 female rulers during Egypt's ancient history:

Sobekneferu (Middle Kingdom), daughter of Amenemhat IV, who ruled for about 4 years, at the end of the 12th Dynasty (1787 BCE - 1783 BCE).

Hatshepsut (New Kingdom), the only known female ruler to have made herself a pharaoh. Hatshepsut ruled for at least 15 years, possible 20 (1473 BCE-1458 BCE),. It appears that Hatshepsut considered herself the only legitimate ruler of her family line, as Thutmose III (her interregenum ward) was the son of Thutmose II and a concubine.

It's probably more fair to say that a "King Neferneferuaten" (New Kingdom) may have ruled after the death of Akhenaten, rather that say that it was Nefertiti, as this seems unproven.

As Allen (1994) pointed out, that a female ruler existed seems very possible: that we can prove it was Nefertiti who ruled is not as easy (other contenders appear to be Merytaten, for example (Gabolde 1998)), or Neferneferure (Allen 2006)). The total length of rule of this female ruler is not certain, but speculated to have been perhaps 2 years. Again, there appeared to be no (majority age) males available to rule after the death of Akhenaten, which is likely why this female ruler arose.

Twosret (New Kingdom) , the Great Royal Wife of Seti II, who made herself king and brought to end the 19th Dynasty, ruling for up to two years (1198 BCE-1196 BCE).

Twosret was the last known female king of Egypt of a local indigenous dynasty. She started out first as an interregnum queen for her stepson Siptah, but when Siptah died, Twosret officially assumed the throne for herself, as the "Daughter of Re, Lady of Ta-merit, Twosret of Mut", and assumed the role of a Pharaoh.

Cleopatra VII (Ptolemaic Dynasty), was the last Ptolemaic ruler of ancient Egypt, who ruled for 20 years (51 BCE-30 BCE).

As part of the Ptoelamic line, Cleopatra VII had a total of four husbands, two of which were brothers (Ptolemy XIII and Ptolemy XIV) she probably murdered to acquired her sole position on the throne. Her son by Julius Caesar, Ptolemy Caesarion (Ptolemy XV), was coregent with Cleopatra VII at the time of his death in 30 BCE; Cleopatra's death followed soon afterwards.

Her three children by Marc Antony (Alexander Helios, his twin Cleopatra Selene, and Ptolemy Philadelphus) became wards of the Roman Empire and were raised by Octavia, Augustus Caesar's sister. The fate of the Antonine sons is not known, but were probably killed by Augustus Caesar.

Cleopatra Selene was married Juba II king of Mauretania between 25 and 20 BCE, as his first wife, by whom she had a son, Ptolemy, king of Mauretania, through whom she probably had further descendants, and probably a daughter, Unknown (here suggested as Cleopatra). Cleopatra Selene probably died ca. 5 BCE.

References:

Allen, J. 2006. The Amarna Succession (PDF). From the online source: Causing His Name to Live: Studies in Egyptian Epigraphy and History in Memory of William J. Murnane.

Allen, J. 1994. Nefertiti and Smenkh-ka-re. Göttinger Miszellen 141: 7-17.

Gabolde, M. 1998. D'Akhenaton à Tutânkhamon. Collection de l'Institut d'Archaeologie et d'Histoire de l'Antiquite 3. Lyon/Paris: Universite Lumiere-Lyon 2, Institut d'Archaeologie et d'Histoire de l'Antiquite/Diffusion de Boccard.

HTH.
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