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The Black Pharaohs
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Ankhesenamun
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Presumably the black pharaohs were just that - black - or considered black because there were of darker skin since they were from further south. Other than that the ancient Egyptians may well have been of similar appearance to modern Egyptians.
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Gerard.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ankhesenamun wrote:
the black pharaohs
This is a modern term given to the kings of the XXV dyn
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Ankhesenamun
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gerard. wrote:
Ankhesenamun wrote:
the black pharaohs
This is a modern term given to the kings of the XXV dyn


Yes I know Wink ......perhaps I should have made it a little clearer. Embarassed
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Gerard.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ankhesenamun wrote:
the black pharaohs
This is a modern expression created to attract readers. Those who wrote the Bible did not know what they were talking about (see F.Joseph Antiquités Judaïques, Livre VIII §155-158 about Pharaoh). A recent book on the XXV dyn kings (from C. Bonnet/D.Valbelle) was stupid enough to tell us on the hard cover that these kings were from Africa; implicitly making people believe that Egypt is not in Africa.
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Ankhesenamun
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's odd that when getting travel insurance to travel to Egypt, Egypt is considered part of Europe as far as travel insurance is concerned! Confused
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gerard. wrote:
Those who wrote the Bible did not know what they were talking about.

Or "How to summarize the Holy Scripture in 13 words". Cool
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Dadude
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Segereh wrote:
Amun wrote:
but where is Tanutamun? Sad

He's on a lunch-break. Back in a jippee. Confused

Spinner wrote:
What struck me was that right up at the front of the article two racist views were attacked and, I hope, demolished, those views being: 1) that black people could never have been so refined and civilized (mentioning proponents Lepsius and Reisner by name) and 2) the Afrocentric view that the ancient Egyptians as a whole were black from Tutankhamun on (and I own one Egyptian grammar, somewhere, which argues that they all were).

That was a courageous thing to write, seeing how many people still buy that (sorry) crap.
There's no factual basis for any of both theories, and seeing people sell it as "truth" can be quite annoying.


Number one, yeah dats pretty false, number two, well, dats a liiiiil on da realistic side
dont meant to start anything, jus putting my voice in there lol.... Very Happy
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Osiris II
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dadude, do you write in slang to be hip and current, or are you REALLY that poorly educated in English?
No offense meant, just wondering if English is a second language for you.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Osiris II wrote:
Dadude, do you write in slang to be hip and current, or are you REALLY that poorly educated in English?
No offense meant, just wondering if English is a second language for you.


dude, what are you, a computer? and i got like 700 verbal SATs my man im pretty sure im good at english, and to top it all off, I'm American Laughing Laughing
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dadude wrote:
I'm American

I knew it!
50Cent, desperatly looking for his fanbase.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Segereh wrote:

I knew it!
50Cent, desperatly looking for his fanbase.


ROTFL My eldest son is a huge fan of "50" so that somehow hit home....

I have to agree with Osiris though. The use of colloquial english can be rather hard to follow. Both my kids sometimes (when they are joking around mostly) speak like dadude writes, but not quite to that degree. And even being attuned to slang I once in a while go "huh?"

Consider putting the 700 SAT score to good use and make it easier for us to understand?
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Gerard.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Segereh wrote:
I knew it!
See, I let you the first place Very Happy
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Dadude
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
Segereh wrote:

I knew it!
50Cent, desperatly looking for his fanbase.


ROTFL My eldest son is a huge fan of "50" so that somehow hit home....

I have to agree with Osiris though. The use of colloquial english can be rather hard to follow. Both my kids sometimes (when they are joking around mostly) speak like dadude writes, but not quite to that degree. And even being attuned to slang I once in a while go "huh?"

Consider putting the 700 SAT score to good use and make it easier for us to understand?


Okay, what i was sayin was the notion of black people being uncivilized is untrue, while the notion of ancient egypt being black is true. that simple enough for ya? Very Happy
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dadude wrote:

the notion of black people being uncivilized is untrue,

Completely agree.

Dadude wrote:

while the notion of ancient egypt being black is true.

I think maybe predominantly black is a better way of putting it.
From ca 1700 BCE there were well recordeed immigrations of middle eastern groups. First the Hyksos, later the slaves the egyptians took or accepted as tribute (the Retenu for instance) created quite a few foreign communities in Egypt.

Not to mention that there seem to have been a fair share of immigrants based on some of the names of even fairly high placed individuals at court (Aperel, Urihiya, etc seem to have been from a middle eastern background). And that makes sense (well to me at least). Egypt was one of the most prosperous countries. It seems natural that this would attract people from other cultures.

Before that there may have been other immigrations into the Nile valley, but that would be harder to prove.

Dadude wrote:

that simple enough for ya? Very Happy

I don't need simple, just correct English Very Happy
Also remember that this board is very international in nature. We have people here from France, Germany, Belgium, Great Brittain, etc. Considering that English is not the native language for quite a few members, refraining from using too much overt slang would be the kind thing to do.

LOl Besides you don't want to start the Brits on slang Smile I have seen a little of that and trust me it takes a bit of work to get all the nuances ...
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dadue wrote:
Quote:
while the notion of ancient egypt being black is true. that simple enough for ya?


Aside from the good explanation anneke gave earlier, I'd like to add that in their artwork the Egyptians themselves often expertly rendered their depictions of people so that their ethnicities were quite clear. One can readily pick out native Egyptians from the Nubians, Libyans, Asiatics, Hittites, and others.

This was especially true during the New Kingdom, the period of empire, when Egypt regularly came into contact with foreigners through war, diplomacy, and trade. I always think of the private tomb in Saqarra that Horemheb built before he became a king. The various ethnicities are wonderfully depicted.

At the museum I often get the "ethnicity" question from our guests. It interests a lot of people. I try to discourage the incorrect notion that the Egyptians were all black or all this or all that, because it seems certain that the reality was more complex. Egypt was a very cosmopolitan society, and in my mind that was one of its strengths.

I would consider racial and ethnic labels to be our own modern baggage. There is no evidence that the Egyptians recognized a notion like racism, and they probably would've thought it odd. Like many other Near Eastern and Mediterranean empires the Egyptians were fiercely nationalistic. Put simply they were xenophobic. They didn't care what color your skin was--if you were Egyptian you were superior. If not, you were strange.

In other words, the Egyptians distrusted everyone else equally. Razz

anneke wrote:
Quote:
I have to agree with Osiris though. The use of colloquial english can be rather hard to follow.


Having lived in Chicago for almost ten years now, I understand Dadude's colloquialisms just fine. Laughing I agree, however, with the need to write in standard English so that our friends here who use English as a second language will be able to understand everything clearly.

Quote:
LOl Besides you don't want to start the Brits on slang Smile I have seen a little of that and trust me it takes a bit of work to get all the nuances ...


Aw, come on. I have truly enjoyed picking up all sorts of Brit slang from Daughter_Of_SETI and isisinacrisis. I even feel that I could visit most areas of the U.K. without a translator. Razz
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