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Maya, overseer of the treasury under Tutankhamen
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 4:03 pm    Post subject: Maya, overseer of the treasury under Tutankhamen Reply with quote

Maya was an important official from the time of Tutankhamun.
His titles include:
Hereditary Prince and Count
The Fanbearer on the King’s Right Hand
Royal Scribe
Overseer of the Treasury

Maya was married to a lady called Meryt. They had only daughters.
Maya’s step-mother Henut-iunu was also depicted in his tomb.
Maya’s brother Nahuher is also depicted. Nahuher is always shown at a much smaller scale than Maya.

An inscription on the southern wall of the pylon entrance mentions that

“… the governance which came into being through me, as something that was ordained for me by my God since my youth, the presence of the King having been granted to me since I was a child. …”

If he grew up in the presence of the King, does that mean he grew up with Akhenaten?
If that is so, why didn’t his brother Nahuher share in that background? Nahuher did not seem to rise to anything resembling power.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We would expect Maya to have appeared at the court of Akhenaten and Nefertiti. The treasurer under Akh was named Sutau however.

Sutau mentions that Akh raised him from nothing, so he can't be Maya who was a Hereditary Prince and Count.

There is a tomb at Amarna of an official called May.

According to Breasted
May is:
Hereditary Prince and Count
Wearer of the Royal Seal
Sole companion
Commander of the army of the Lord of the Two Lands
Overseer of the "House-of-sending-Aton-to-rest"
King's attendant in his august barge
Master of the Suite behind the Lord of the Two Lands
Chief of all works of the King.


Quite a laundry list Laughing

So this May really was very close to the King.

If this is the same man as Maya, then his connections to the army are very interesting.
It would exlain why he may have retained his very high position under Horemheb.

There is suppposedly a scene in the tomb of Maia, wet-nurse of Tut, showing a council of men consisting of 5 army generals and Maya.
This inclusion of Maya is less strange if he had connections to the army.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just looked at the Saqqara Online website
http://www.let.leidenuniv.nl/saqqara/homepage.htm

There they give more information about the family of Maya.

His father is named Iuy and his mother Weret.

Nahuher is the brother of Meryt, not Maya. I'm assuming that the info is the latest, and most accurate.

Nahuher did rise to prominence under Ramses apparently. He became high steward of the Ramesseum.

Maya had two brothers: Nakht and Parennefer. They were Scribe of the treasury of the lord of the two lands (worked for his brother?), and Overseer of the Bowmen/Overseer of the Horses respectively.

The daughters of Maya and Meryt went by the names of Mayamenti and Tjauenmaya. Rather strage names? I have never seen those anywhere else.
I wonder if they married, and if so to whom?
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to Saqqara Online Maya and Meryt were half-siblings.
Maya was the son of Iuy and Weret, Meryt was the daughter of Iuy and Henutiunu.

I guess Nahuher was half-brother to Maya, Nakht and Parennefer then.

It would be interesting to find the tombs of the other brothers and half-brother to see what information can be gleaned from their tomb.

Seems like a well-connected family.

It is interesting that Maya never claims any connection to the army. But his brother Parennefer was overseer of the Bowmen. Not quite a general, and I don't know what that title means.
Any suggestions?
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a man called Parennefer buried in Amarna.
His father is named Aupia, and is a craftsman, while Maya's father was a magistrate.

So I don't think this is the same person.
If he is, then his career took a nose-dive.

See: http://members.tripod.com/~ib205/parennefer.html
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In Breasted, Vol III pg 19 Maya is mentioned.

His name is given as Meya, son of the judge Yuy and the matron Weret.
This is from Graffiti from the Theban Necropolis, and dates from year 8 of Horemheb's reign.
There are some indications (from his tomb) that Maya (or his wife) died in year 9.

Maya is accompanied by an assistant named Thutmose, son of Hatyay and his mother Yuy from the city of Thebes.

Maya is charged with the restoration of the burial of Thutmosis IV.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If he grew up in the presence of the King, does that mean he grew up with Akhenaten? If that is so, why didn’t his brother Nahuher share in that background? Nahuher did not seem to rise to anything resembling power.


I think it would be violating chronology stating he grew up with Achie. It seems to me Maya only grew in prominence later in the reign of Achenaton, making him a little younger than the king? "In the presence of the king" doesn't necessarily make him member of the king's kap - the royal kindergarten so to say. My guess would be, since his parents weren't of a real low standard, it might be so that he was raised as a promising youth near or inside the royal harem. Couldn't state it with facts though. Amarna tar-pits, girl... Watch out where u go. Wink
On the Nahuher-case: maybe u explained it by giving him a slightly different descent? I wouldn't know for sure. I could well be Nahuher was a little stupid or so. Cool Just kidding, stupid people raise to prominence as well... Maybe he didn't live long enough?

Quote:
If this (May) is the same man as Maya, then his connections to the army are very interesting. It would exlain why he may have retained his very high position under Horemheb.

There is suppposedly a scene in the tomb of Maia, wet-nurse of Tut, showing a council of men consisting of 5 army generals and Maya.
This inclusion of Maya is less strange if he had connections to the army.


I won't comment on May maybe being Maya, but apparently there's really nothing weird with a connotation of being an administrative with military activities. Horemheb's case of being a royal scribe and a leading general, him taking honour from both offices, is one of the best examples here on.

Quote:
The daughters of Maya and Meryt went by the names of Mayamenti and Tjauenmaya. Rather strage names? I have never seen those anywhere else.


Same here. I'd think there based on the name of Maya (duh), becoming Maya-em-inet and Tjaoe-en-Maya, respectively "Maya at the procession" and "Wind of Maya". The latter one sounds strange, but I made it like that. Smile "Wind" also means "breath", so it becomes "Breath of Maya", quite poetic...

Quote:
According to Saqqara Online Maya and Meryt were half-siblings.
Maya was the son of Iuy and Weret, Meryt was the daughter of Iuy and Henutiunu.
I guess Nahuher was half-brother to Maya, Nakht and Parennefer then.


And we complain of Hatshepsut having a rather incestual family...

Quote:
It is interesting that Maya never claims any connection to the army. But his brother Parennefer was overseer of the Bowmen. Not quite a general, and I don't know what that title means.
Any suggestions?


Even if he never claims a post in the miltary, it's not necessarily true he wasn't associated with it, just that he didn't have an executive role (meaning in contemporary terms he wasn't colonel or general or so, but easily able to be a 'war-reporter' Smile ). "Overseer of the Bowmen" I guess would be a title for a lieutenant in the Egyptian armies, not really a leading role, but still at the head of a regiment.

Quote:
In Breasted, Vol III pg 19 Maya is mentioned.

His name is given as Meya, son of the judge Yuy and the matron Weret.
This is from Graffiti from the Theban Necropolis, and dates from year 8 of Horemheb's reign.
There are some indications (from his tomb) that Maya (or his wife) died in year 9.

Maya is accompanied by an assistant named Thutmose, son of Hatyay and his mother Yuy from the city of Thebes.

Maya is charged with the restoration of the burial of Thutmosis IV.


U surely did a good job here. Smile Many things to answer to.
Here u give a possible clue to when Maya was born. People didn't live very long in AE, some 30 or 40 years. If we take this 40 year period, he was born somewhere around 20 years before Tut ascended the throne. (9 years for Tut, 2 for Aye, 9 under Horemheb untill he would have died)Make it a little bit longer perhaps. He was then only a kid when Achie attained royal status. He still had to be at least 15 years older than this to be a contemporary kid to Achenaton. Making him not a childhood-friend of Achie.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The incomparable Segereh wrote:
Here u give a possible clue to when Maya was born. People didn't live very long in AE, some 30 or 40 years. If we take this 40 year period, he was born somewhere around 20 years before Tut ascended the throne. (9 years for Tut, 2 for Aye, 9 under Horemheb untill he would have died)Make it a little bit longer perhaps. He was then only a kid when Achie attained royal status. He still had to be at least 15 years older than this to be a contemporary kid to Achenaton. Making him not a childhood-friend of Achie.


Wow!, some mighty big leaps of faith there!
Most people didn't grow to be very old, but that doesn't mean Maya couldn't have reached a ripe old age (by AE standards) of 60!

We don't have anywhere near enough info to make an argument like that.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seggie wrote:
I won't comment on May maybe being Maya, but apparently there's really nothing weird with a connotation of being an administrative with military activities. Horemheb's case of being a royal scribe and a leading general, him taking honour from both offices, is one of the best examples here on.


I don't know if May and Maya are the same person either, but still intriguing possibility.

I know there are scribes in the army, and diplomats as well.

But Overseer of the treasury is a bit more than just a scribe. Cool

I meant to point out that if Maya had army connections in an earlier stage of his career, then this would have given him another kind of network to rely on. It may have included him in any clique all the faster.

Maybe being treasurer is reason enough in and of itself to try to include him in any behind the scenes power clan though.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'd think there based on the name of Maya (duh), becoming Maya-em-inet and Tjaoe-en-Maya, respectively "Maya at the procession" and "Wind of Maya". The latter one sounds strange, but I made it like that. "Wind" also means "breath", so it becomes "Breath of Maya", quite poetic...


Hehe, glad she called breath of Maya.
Calling the poor kid "fart" wouldn't be very nice. Shocked
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

About me, guessing Maya's age, anneke wrote:
We don't have anywhere near enough info to make an argument like that.


Evil or Very Mad
You're right it's not really appropriate to 'guess a person's age', but becoming 30-40 years was more of a rule than it was an exception. It also suited the picture of Maya, not having the same age as Achie. U said so yourself he was preceded in the office of treasurer by a certain Sutau. I think the reason why Maya only came in prominence later on (just like Horemheb), was because he was still too 'young' during the first years of Achie. Anyway, it was just a theory, a likely one, but a wrong one if I judge from this:

About the finds in Maya's tomb, Anne Versloot wrote:
Bones were also found, presumably belonging to Maya, Merit, his stepmother and a child. An anthropologist examined them and confirmed that Maya probably died at the age of 65 or thereabouts. The bodies of the treasurer and his family lay in wooden coffins. But like most of the furniture, the caskets had rotted and were beyond repair.


Cool Still, u have to admit it was possible. My wrong for guessing.

The wonder that is commonly called 'anneke' but which is actually a transformation in disguise of the divine powers that slumber inside the waking thoughts of the goddess of a ten thousand names, the Eternal Mother of Earth and Man, the glorious spouse of Osiris, yeah, you guessed it right, the mysterious, sensual and all-overpowering Mrs. Isis wrote:
Maybe being treasurer is reason enough in and of itself to try to include him in any behind the scenes power clan though.


I guess that would be true. He was close to Tut in any case, I doubt he would be able to leave gifts for the afterlife of his king if he wasn't in high regard (something nobody really doubts, but hey, sometimes u have to kick open an unclosed door).

Here's something u might wanna see:
http://www.rnw.nl/culture/html/maya000623.html
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
I don't know if May and Maya are the same person either, but still intriguing possibility.


This May would rather have been this May (mentioned at Tour Egypt)?

Quote:
Mai
18th Dynasty

Mai served during the reign of Akhenaten and commanded the troops for the king in the capital dedicated to Aten. Mai was a hereditary aristocrat who was buried in the cliffs that overlooked the city.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Segereh wrote:
anneke wrote:
I don't know if May and Maya are the same person either, but still intriguing possibility.


This May would rather have been this May (mentioned at Tour Egypt)?

Quote:
Mai
18th Dynasty

Mai served during the reign of Akhenaten and commanded the troops for the king in the capital dedicated to Aten. Mai was a hereditary aristocrat who was buried in the cliffs that overlooked the city.


Yes that would be the one.
There's a tomb "in the cliffs that overlooked the city", but I'm not sure he was ever buried there.

I thought there was only one noble's tomb that showed any signs of burial (can't remember which one). The rest weren't sufficiently finished.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The wonder that is commonly called 'anneke' but which is actually a transformation in disguise of the divine powers that slumber inside the waking thoughts of the goddess of a ten thousand names, the Eternal Mother of Earth and Man, the glorious spouse of Osiris, yeah, you guessed it right, the mysterious, sensual and all-overpowering Mrs. Isis


Laughing Very Happy You're waaaay better at this kinda stuff than I am. Laughing

I really liked the article by Anne Versloot BTW.

The book "The Hidden Tombs of Memphis" by Martin describes the finds in the tomb. He mentions the decorations in the tomb.
He notes that even Horemheb's tomb (in Saqqara) wasn't that richly decorated. The Yellow decorations referring to the sun are interesting. It sounds like Maya still had the artists use quite a bit of Amarna imagery in the tomb. Having the sun represented this way does "reek" of Atenism, and the tomb was used well into Horemheb's reign.

Martin did say that they were going to restore the murals. Nice to see that they did.
He also mentions that when they closed the openings (the doorways), the workers used blocks that were decorated on both sides, so that after completion the entire burial chamber would be decorated. This was also a rather unique feature I think.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back to the official May in Amarna:

Quote:
MAY, "Fan-bearer on the right hand of the King, Royal scribe, scribe of recruits, Steward of the house of Sehetep-Aten, Steward of the house of Waenra in Heliopolis, Overseer of cattle of the estate of Ra in Heliopolis, Overseer of all the works of the King, General of the Lord of the Two Lands."

May was evidently a very high official early in Akhenaten's reign. Before the King's death he had fallen from grace and his name has been carefully erased in most places. It is interesting to note that May had offices in the sun temples at Heliopolis, near Cairo.


Both the fact that May had offices outside Amarna and the erasure of his name is interesting.

Both Breasted and Murnane give his name as May, and I believe Breasted mentions that there was a problem reading his name at first.

Given the destruction of his name I think it becomes more unlikely that this official was ever buried there.
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