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Questions about several things, mainly Maat
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Osiris II
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'll find a complete translation of the Great Hymn here:
http://www.touregypt.net/hymntoaten.htm

To the best of my knowledge, Ma'at, as a goddess, is not mentioned. The concept of Ma'at is suggested in the wording. But any reference to any other god would not be there--it is a hymn in praise of Akhenaten, Nefertiti and Aten only.
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seshat, I see your link isn't working and I didn't want to go in and change it without being sure, so I'm providing the link to the page below:

Akhenaten makes an offering of Maat

The photo is near the bottom.

This is a page from Osiris.net so you can't pull the image from the page like you can with many web pages. That's too bad because Osiris.net has some of the nicest photos on the Web. Confused
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Carl Graves
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey peeps.

I studied the Amarna period last year and did pick up on the inclusion of 'Maat' and i think even 'Hapy'/'Hapi' is mentioned. I asked my tutor why Akhenaten (the montheist) was refering to other deities.

My tutor explained that although the elements of what these deities stand for are embodied my a god/godess figure they stand for concepts in the reign of Akhenaten, not the actual deities to be worshiped themselves.

i.e. Justice, order etc and the flooding of the Nile.

Sprry, just wanted to elaborate on what people had said earlier.

xxx
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Gerard.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carl Graves wrote:
.... what these deities stand for are embodied my a god/godess figure they stand for concepts in the reign of Akhenaten, not the actual deities to be worshiped themselves.
IMO this was true at all times. From what I understand, Egyptians needed to give life to abstract concepts. I guess we still do it, as the justice in France is often represented by a woman holding a balance. http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_(embl%C3%A8me_justice)
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Carl Graves
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very true! Such as Lady Justice etc!

I suppose in that sense it's almost as though the idea of Maat has not stopped!

xxx
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen reliefs dating to early in Akhenaten's reign where a handful of other deities are pictured in the presence of Akhenaten. Maat is one of them. Clearly the deity himself or herself is depicted, and not an abstract concept.

Later is when Akhenaten was growing more monotheistic, and Atenism may have arrived at pure monotheism had it existed long enough. However, I still feel that Atenism was henotheism: one deity favored above the others.
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Gerard.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How an abstract concept was represented by the Egyptians ? or by anybody else ?
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Khuy-n-inpw
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Incidentally, the worship of a single mother-goddess in the form of a hen would not be henotheism but halektryonotheism.

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Gerard.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

See how Maat is perceived in this article. http://repositories.cdlib.org/nelc/uee/1007/

J.Assmann wrote a book in french about Maat, I have not seen a translation in english but there is one in german.
1989 Maât, l'Egypte pharaonique et l'idée de justice sociale
1990 Ma'at, Gerechtigkeit und Unsterblichkeit im alten Ägypten
When I read it, Maat is far away from a deity but a concept with five aspects.
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Gerard.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I read it, Maat is far away from a deity but is rather a concept with five aspects.
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Khuy-n-inpw
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
the worship of a single mother-goddess in the form of a hen


Edit to: alektryonotheism

Embarassed
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Gerard.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://repositories.cdlib.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1021&context=nelc/uee another article with Maat as goddess, justice, etc.

IMO Maat, daughter of Re is an image similar to France, eldest daughter of the catholic church.
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Khuy-n-inpw wrote:
Incidentally, the worship of a single mother-goddess in the form of a hen would not be henotheism but halektryonotheism.

Wink


Halektryon...what the hell? Laughing

You've taught me a new word, Khuy-n-inpw. I've never heard of that term before. I tried to learn more about it but none of the standard search engines knew it, either.

Would you be so kind as to explain it for the sake of the more dense among us?

Okay, that would be me, explicitly. Razz
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anneke
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL The only thing I was able to find was Alectryon whose name means rooster. In Greek mythology he was appointed by Ares to stand guard (while the god made love to Aphrodite).

According to some internet references, so I'm not sure how reliable that is Smile

So worshipping a hen (or rooster in this case) would lead to worshipping Alectryon. Hence Alectryonotheism?

LOL Khuy is pretty creative ...
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Khuy-n-inpw
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is my big chance to be really boring, I think. geek

The modern Greek word for ‘one’ (masc.) is ‘enas’ (ένας) the ‘h’ sound having disappeared over the centuries. That’s why I was struck by the term ‘henotheism’ which to the naïve observer (even here in Greece) looks remarkably like it should mean the worship of a hen.

Well, it turns out that it comes, not from ‘enas,’ but from the classical Greek word for ‘one,’ which is ‘heis, henos’ (είς, ενός) and – now the bit that will fry your brains – which in the classical language has a little diacritical mark over it which indicates that it should be pronounced ‘heis’ not ‘eis.’ If it was to be pronounced ‘eis’ the diacritical mark would be the other way round. Scared yet?

Then I began to wonder what it would be if it was the worship of a divine hen, and I came across the classical word αλεκτρυών, -ονος (alektryon) for male or female of the species Gallus gallus , which I assure you can be found in the dictionary, as the basis for words like ‘alectryomancy,’ or divination by means of a bird of this type.

However, we don’t say ‘heistheism,’ do we. Therefore, if it is correct to take the stem of the word rather than the root, we should really say ‘alectryonomancy’ and ‘alectryonotheism.’ I was just on the point of writing that, and then I wrongly ‘remembered’ the diacritical mark (which is of course the other way around in αλεκτρυών) and blurted out ‘halectryonotheism.’

Then I ’ad to hedit my post, and the rest is ιστορία (with the ‘h’ diacritical mark this time).

Some may legitimately question what it all has to do with the concept of m3at, but it should be remembered that this thread can include several things.

Wink
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