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His and hers sandals on Tutankhamuns throne
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Osiris II
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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Neferwiwi. It looks as if it is just a portion of the sandal that was broken off at the time it was placed in the tomb. All the mentioned theories just sound like so much wishful thinking and not realistic.
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

neferwiwi wrote:
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You will notice that they are wearing sandals on both feet. But the thong parts are only missing, the soles are clearly there (though also broken in front). It would seem that the thongs broke away, or ripped away


You're absolutely right about that. It's harder to tell on Ankhesenamun's left foot, but if you look hard enough, you can see the sole of the sandal. It's much more evident on the right foot of Tut, probably because that foot is propped up on the foot rest.

I hope you don't mind, neferwiwi, but I'm adding that lovely image to my own screensaver. Smile

Gerard. wrote:
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You could get it from nearly everybody, this is the most common identification. When it comes to identification of signs, most authors follow a tradition.


That's interesting, Gerard. Are there any publications or articles to which you can point me so I can read up on this for myself? It surprises me because I'd like to think that leaders in the field like Gardiner, Faulkner, and Allen were capable of more than just regurgitating the work of each preceding scholar. What evidence is there to discount this? I know it's not a big deal in the scheme of things but you've really caught my interest. Smile
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 2:56 am    Post subject: Plus ça change, plus c’est le même Reeves Reply with quote

Gerard. wrote:
When the throne was brought in KV62, Ankhesenamun was alive.

Hi Gerard,

Is there any strong evidence for this apart from the letter to Suppiluliuma from the (bereaved) Royal Wife, who may well have been Nefertiti (Reeves2001/2005)?

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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Ay-Ankhesenamon ring is an evidence she was alive.
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That ring is the last evidence we have that Ankhesenamun was still alive when Tut was interred in KV62, but she disappears after that. If I'm not mistaken the ring is now also lost.

I could swear I've seen a photo of it, but I might be thinking of another ring. Is anyone aware of such a photo?
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anneke
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



From my page about Ankhesenamen:
web page
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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmt_sesh wrote:
If I'm not mistaken the ring is now also lost.

Should be in Berlin according to............................... Reeves p.189. Surprised
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, anneke and Gerard. The ring is in Berlin. I went to the website but was unable to track it down, but it's in there somewhere. I don't know why I was thinking the ring had been lost. Confused
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neferwiwi
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kmt_sesh, please be my guest for the screensaver. You have no idea the compliments I get on it !
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, neferwiwi. Smile

LOL I don't know how many compliments I'll get, seeing as how I'm unmarried and childless--no one to see it but me. But, hey, I'm happy to have it on my screensaver!
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Sesen
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smile Thats a lovely photo Neferwiwi - I have it saved now too. It shows the details better including their feet, the missing bracelet that Rozette mentioned and the alteration to Ankhes wig. I'm still curious about the scene as a whole especially the relevance of Ankhes annointing T. It has such a prominant place there on the throne.
The lecture by Marianne Eaton-Krauss at Leiden would have been well worth attending. Her books too pricey for me unfortunately, another one for the wish list..

I'm going to report back to the lass on whose behalf I posted the sandals question, thanks again to everyone - So its pretty much agreed that the current state of the sandals (and a couple of other anomalies) are most likely due to damage suffered at some stage?
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anneke
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The throne does show some wear and tear. It looks like it has both been altered and used quite a bit.

The annointing scene is rather interesting. There is also a scene on that beautiful golden shrine where Tutankhamen is shown pouring something for Ankhesenamen. Both are scenes that show a bit of an unexpected relationship between the couple. Almost a reversal of their expected positions.

Bob Brier pointed out in one of his talks that I attended that the scene on the shrine shows Tut attending Ankhesenamun, and he thought it could indicate that she held a rather high position at court. Maybe equal status or close to equal status for the couple (the last part is my take on it).

I don't know if it adds up to Ankhesenamun functioning as some type of regent for her younger brother (assuming both are children of Akhenaten). She must have been at least 5 years older than Tut and in those days a14 or 15 year old girl would have held the status of an adult wouldn't she?

The annointing scene on the throne has more of a feeling of a goddess blessing the king. She is depicted with the Hathoric double plumes and horned sundisk. No idea if there is a double meaning there that is meant to show Hathor as blessing the king. The latter is of course speculation on my part. Smile
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have often wondered about the alteration to Ankhesenamen's wig. Does anyone have any ideas or heard any scholarly reports on why that might be? I believe that at least the Hathor crown and feathers, if not the modius as well, are latter additions/alterations. If you look at the Aten's rays, the hands near that section are missing, covered by the latter additions. I've noticed that the Aten's rays always end in hands unless the scene has been altered. Compare the rays and hands by Tut's crown, you'll see what I mean.

Back in the 80s, after the first Tut visit, (and just before I went off to college) I decided to paint this on my bedroom door, so I spent a lot of time studying it. At that time I noticed the sandles, and it was pretty evident that parts were missing. Especially on Tut's right foot, you can see a couple of small indentations where the strap once covered the foot.

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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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If you look at the Aten's rays, the hands near that section are missing, covered by the latter additions. I've noticed that the Aten's rays always end in hands unless the scene has been altered. Compare the rays and hands by Tut's crown, you'll see what I mean.


That's an excellent point and I would have to agree with you. The ends of the Aten's rays by Ankhesenamun terminate abruptly and disappear behind her headgear, so it would indeed seem that the plumes and horns were added later. The throne might well be a blend of Atenism and religious orthodoxy as Egypt was resuming its old traditions.

I also like anneke's idea that in this scene Ankhesenamun is taking on the guise of a goddess, as she anoints Tut.
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anneke wrote:
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The annointing scene on the throne has more of a feeling of a goddess blessing the king

I get that impression too and also regarding her position at court. At both Karnak and Luxor temple statuary she is shown on a comparable scale as Tutankhamun, reminiscent (albeit much smaller) of the colossal of Amen III and Tiye. Not to say they were kings equal but it does indicate at this time a higher than the earlier traditional status for Great Royal Wives.

Burlgirl wrote:
Quote:
I believe that at least the Hathor crown and feathers, if not the modius as well, are latter additions/alterations.


Thats a great observation and I see what you mean. That area in front of her modius looks really quite messy. The aten's hands reach and touch T's crown but are cut off quite clearly when they extend towards Ankhes headdress.

Going back to the sandals question for a bit. I was looking through Aldreds Akhenaten and noticed that he has a old photo of the throne. It appeared that T and Ankhes still have their shoes on - and Ankhes her bracelet. Had a look at the Burton photos online and although they're not so clear as the colour modern ones I'm sure I can see the missing sandal on T and vague impression of another on Ankhes. The matching bracelet is clear in that last link also.
So the throne it would seem has been damaged in modern times as well as, from Carters notes, in ancient times.
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