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Nefertiti in Thebes (or "the early years")
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anneke
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 11:36 am    Post subject: Nefertiti in Thebes (or "the early years") Reply with quote

I just gor Redford's book about Akhenaten and I was struck by something he said about the excavations in Thebes.

Redford mentions that Nefertiti is shown twice as often as Akhenaten? I found that rather surprising. And he mentions that she is already in these early years shown smiting enemies.
I had not realized that the famous smiting scene (I think it's in Boston now) came from Thebes.
Such a prominent role so early is quite interesting. It also seems to me that in quite a few scenes she wears the modius and plumes, not her blue crown (yet).

One place where she is not depicted as prominently is the heb-sed scenes. Another enigma of that time period. Those festivals were meant to be held in year 30, but Akh has one in his second year.
Thirtieth birthday? Although some now think he was quite young when he came to the throne so that doesn't seem likely either.

This is defnitely one area where the more I learn, the less I understand Very Happy
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Rozette
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anneke,

The famous smiting scene of Nefertiti from the Museum of Fine Arts, Boston was found at Hermopolis ( Amarna).
See link for picture : http://www.mfa.org/collections/search_art.asp?recview=true&id=46198&coll_keywords=&coll_accession

Probably Redford referd to another scene found at Thebes of Nefertiti who is smiting the enemies.
I think that I have a picture of that scene between some of my notes. I will look it up.
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found the picture of Nefertiti smiting the enemies at Thebes.

197Sayed Tawfik, Aton Studies, in: MDAIK 31, 1975, 159-168 und
Silke Roth, Gebieterin aller Länder, OBO 158, Fribourg - Göttingen 2002, S. 27f.


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anneke
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's rather facscinating. Is the figure on the left Akhenaten or NEfertiti in her blue crown. It looks like Nefretiti is also depicted as a sphinx trampling the enemy.
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MDAIK 31 p.162 : A block from Luxor Temple shows a construction of four shrines, all in a ship representing the queen striking an enemy. Nothing is to be seen of the queen in the first shrine. In the second one, Nefertiti is standing wearing the reginal feather crown with the sun disk under the rays of Aton, her hair, dress and figure showing a pure femininity. In the third one, the queen appears in the form of a female sphinx under the rays of the Aton disk, the sphinx has the head of Queen Nefertiti with the feather crown above the headdress. She is trampling an enemy. In the last shrine, Queen Nefertiti is depicted under the rays of the sun disk striking a foe, who is represented raising both his hands asking for mercy, the queen here wears the closefitted helmet which she wears in many scenes, especially in a similar smiting scene on two adjacent slabs found at Hermopolis, showing in a striking action on the cabin of a boat. It is also to be noted that the line of the back of the neck is straight in the two above-mentioned scenes. Here also is further evidence that Nefertiti did not wear the blue crown or war helmet, because, if she intended to wear it, this would be the suitable context.
The above-mentioned scenes, showing Nefertiti's power on a boat's cabin or in a kiosk, deserve close observation because they are nowhere else known except for kings or gods.
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T. Bryce (Kingdom of Hittites p.92) : The Tawananna (*) figured prominently in rituals and religious ceremonies as the chief priestess of the kingdom, presiding over such ceremonies and performing other religious functions, sometimes in association with the king, sometimes on her own. Her priestly role may have provided the basis for the wider influence which she could exercise within the kingdom….

We know next to nothing about Mitannians, however some of their Gods and Goddesses were common with those of the Hittites & the Syrians (or rather the reverse). So many Mitannians were at the court, they may have influenced the Egyptians.

* Title of the Hittite Great Queen
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Rozette
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote Gerard:
In the third one, the queen appears in the form of a female sphinx under the rays of the Aton disk, the sphinx has the head of Queen Nefertiti with the feather crown above the headdress. She is trampling an enemy.


There is a comparison to the scene of Nefertiti as a female sphinx in the tomb of Kheruef, the decoration of the throne of Queen Tiye shows also the traditional royal posture of smiting the enemy.The figure of the sphinx and prisoners are also femenale.

http://www.osirisnet.net/tombes/nobles/kheru/e_kherouef2.htm
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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 6:10 pm    Post subject: You read Redford too? Reply with quote

"I just gor Redford's book about Akhenaten "

Ik ook....

I think i want marry this author....... He may actually have a vocabulary equal to mine. He is very intelligent and he seems very very very very knowledgable about Ancient Egypt.... *dreamy sigh* I am in love...... and reading 2 of his books at the moment..... including the one you just got.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 6:24 pm    Post subject: Re: You read Redford too? Reply with quote

Mandi wrote:

I think i want marry this author.......


LOL That could get you in some hot water with his wife Very Happy

But, yes I do like Redford as an author. He - like Weeks - has a very pleasant writing style.
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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy Thanks Rozette for posting that image of Nefertiti from Luxor Temple. Its great to see.

Gerald wrote:
Quote:
It is also to be noted that the line of the back of the neck is straight in the two above-mentioned scenes.

That reminded me that at some stage I'd read about the significance of the curved or straight neck. It escapes me now. Can anyone elaborate on how it actually worked?
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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sesen wrote:
the significance of the curved or straight neck.

Reeves(2001/2005) 'Akhenaten' p.167-8 refers to a theory by Newberry (1928) that a stele made for a military officer called Pase showed Akhenaten in an affectionate pose with another man.
Reeves wrote:
"Two kings, however, require two sets of two cartouches; three can refer only to a king and his queen - despite the kingly crowns. And this conclusion is confirmed by certain artistic conventions displayed in the composition - the convex, male curve of the neck on the figure to the left, and the concave, female curve of that positioned to the right. The images on the Pase stela were...therefore... of Akhenaten and a queen."
The mileage I get from Reeves (2001/2005)! blob3
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't mind seeing a few more pictures....
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Sesen
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy Many thanks to Khuy-n-inpw and also to Reeves for that straight answer to a curvy question.
Much appreciated Smile
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Khuy-n-inpw
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 10:23 am    Post subject: Reeves Paranoia Reply with quote

Sesen wrote:
a curvy question
I just hope you weren't winding me up! #Splat blob1
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Mandi
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 5:34 am    Post subject: Yeh hehehe Reply with quote

Woot?! He is married?! How dare he..... All this time i have been drooling over his book like it was some sort of porn magazine for women....

I guess this means i will have to just settle Kmt_Sesh.... Though he could never compete with Redford, i guess it wouldn't be all bad. He has a whole big museum i could play with.... So could really still be worse i suppose..... I suppose i could be married to Nixon or somethin, he didn't *even* have a cool museum at his disposal.
Twisted Evil

But ya never know, could be there is no problem.... Maybe Redford's writing name is made up of a first and middle name? Maybe his true last name is Jessop? Perhaps he is a mormon??? Perhaps he is a follower of Warren Jeffs. Maybe there is hope for me??? Likely not though if he is a follower of Warren Jeffs, i would have to be 15 to compete with all the other eligible child brides. hehehe Yes i am full of alot of stinky brown stuff.... Seriously... From his work he sounds like a sane upstanding guy. Very full of information.... The only thing i drool over is a sad pathetic dream of having him for a professor..... He is super interesting to read.

But have you read some of his other books??? Sometimes he gets rather errr militant and just stops short of beating those lacking his good sense to tiny little bits, ofcourse his favorite weapon is not some sort of archaic weapon as one might otherwise guess.... His weapon of choice seems to be a mixture of good sense good research good information and an opinion that actually makes sense and is technically quite correct.... You should try reading the notes..... Oh my gods!!! WOW! Sometimes he stops just short of calling others incompetent... Those notes are just too amusing.... I mean his books are good but all the notes are maybe even better they are so.... strongly stated.... wow wow wow.l.... If he truly was a mormon, i would actually convert to that idiocy just to stand half a chance! tongue1
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