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The Crowns of Isis & Nephthys

 
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freeTinker
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:24 am    Post subject: The Crowns of Isis & Nephthys Reply with quote

Can I ask the meaning behind the crowns of Isis and Nephthys?



I an under the impression from reading/hearing somewhere that the crowns have a astronomical (and cosmological) relevance. That the Isis crown is the throne of Osiris in the cosmos (Osiris has become a star); and that the Nephthys crown (at least the cup element) represents a 'holder' for the space (or nothingness) in the cosmos itself (perhaps perceived by the egyptians as waters - Nun?)

Can you cast any light on this matter?
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Osiris II
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isis crown symbolizes a throne. That of Nephthys has been described as a stand holding a bowl used to hold water.
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freeTinker
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What? that's it? - I am sure (hope) there must be more to it than that, and perhaps on many different levels. For instance could the throne crown of Isis be related to her being 'mother-of-the-throne', signifying or relating to the passing of the crown/kingship generationally through the female line?

What are the little objects in Nephthys' 'bowl stand'? - I read something about the half circle being a symbol for bread, is there any fact in this? - and why the small rectangular section identified in the corner of her crown?
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that indeed the throne is just a throne.

The symbol for Nephtys (Egyptian name Neb-t-hwt I think) is actually a rebus for her name. The bowl and the bread loaf make up Neb-t. This means Lady.
The rectangle is hwt which means something like house or palace or even (temple) enclosure. I think the little square may just be the door?

I think some would claim that instead of Lady of the Palace / enclosure she was lady of the heavenly realm where Horus dwells. I at least found some websites claiming this. Then again, I'm skeptical of the whole "sky /cosmic interpretation".

I could be wrong mind you, but I think Nephtys (Nebthet) was a rather archaic goddess. She dates back to early times. She's sister to Isis, Osiris and Set. Sometimes thought to be mother of Anpu (Anubis).
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freeTinker
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was under the impression that there was a cosmology 'built-in' to the 'gods' and the Ancient Egyptian view of things from the start... is this something that you think was 'added' later?

They seemed very 'sky' oriented/ated from what I see, and it seems to make sense, we might be found watching American Idol (or whatever) of an evening, but the night sky would be their 'television' and it's not too hard to see myth, legend and story (and religion) developing around what they 'watched'

Surely they thought about things, interpreted things and represented things on different levels? - like a child might relate to Santa, but as we get older a differing 'explanation' might be more appropriate? - so might it have been with the ancient egyptians (and other cultures) who might have one level of understanding for the child or common man, and quite another for the priesthoods or 'keepers of knowledge'?

Please I am not trying to be rude here, but have I misunderstood the 'scope' of this discussion site? like is it concerned purely with archeology, dig finds, and interpretation of writings etc. - I just find myself a bit confused?! - I didn't see anything about that in the rules; surely we need to understand their 'physchology' and try to get into the mind of the people and times to truly understand what went on?

BTW your posts anneke and those of Osiris II are very good and informative, I enjoy reading them
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

freeTinker wrote:
I was under the impression that there was a cosmology 'built-in' to the 'gods' and the Ancient Egyptian view of things from the start... is this something that you think was 'added' later?

I'm not sure. I think it may have depended on the site and the specific myths?

freeTinker wrote:
They seemed very 'sky' oriented/ated from what I see, and it seems to make sense, we might be found watching American Idol (or whatever) of an evening, but the night sky would be their 'television' and it's not too hard to see myth, legend and story (and religion) developing around what they 'watched'

I know that for instance that the set of beliefs surrounding Ra is related to the night sky. Ra is supposed to travel the sky in his barque.

There is the helical rising of Sirius that is sometimes mentioned. And at some point we see paintings on ceilings of tombs related to the sky. There are examples of that in the Valley of the Kings.

freeTinker wrote:
Please I am not trying to be rude here, but have I misunderstood the 'scope' of this discussion site? like is it concerned purely with archeology, dig finds, and interpretation of writings etc. - I just find myself a bit confused?! - I didn't see anything about that in the rules; surely we need to understand their 'physchology' and try to get into the mind of the people and times to truly understand what went on?

No, there's nothing wrong with exploring the "psychology". Very Happy
I didn't imply in my answer that there was something wrong with your theory. And you are asking very ligitimate questions about the religion and mythologies of the Ancient Egyptians.
I'm just not sure the whole Osiris-Isis-Nephtys-Set etc myths do have a "cosmic interpretation".
Like I said, I may be wrong!
But the cosmic aspect of some myths do not imply that all of them have a cosmic interpretation.

I was just trying to fill in any blanks I'm aware of. And I was trying to indicate that this is not something I'm an expert in and that I have some questions as to the right interpretations myself.

The way this forum works means that usually someone with more information will then add their 2 cents Smile

I think some of the regulars here are a bit more likely to discuss archeology, dig finds, and interpretation of writings etc. as you mention.
But I like your discussions. It rounds out the lists of topics.


freeTinker wrote:
BTW your posts anneke and those of Osiris II are very good and informative, I enjoy reading them

You're welcome. I have enjoyed your contributions and questions.
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