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Evidence to suggest Sphinx was recarved during New Kingdom?
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CSM
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:55 pm    Post subject: Evidence to suggest Sphinx was recarved during New Kingdom? Reply with quote

We know subsequent pharaohs often usurped monuments of their predecessors. As far as I know, this was usually by replacing the 'old pharaoh's' cartouche with the cartouche of the usurper.

Is there any evidence of statuary actually being recarved into the image of the usurper? Building on this, like the topic states, does anyone know if there is legitimate evidence to suggest the head/face of the Sphinx was not only restored during the New Kingdom but also usurped and recarved? This could possibly explain why the head seems too small and out of proportion to the body.

Thanks for any help.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's an interesting discussion here online.

The short version is that El Mahdy has suggested that possibly Tuthmosis IV not only placed the dream stela between the paws after clearing the monument of excessive sand, but may have also done a touch up on the face.

I don't know enough about the Egyptian language to say what the proper translation is and if there is a suggestion of a recarving, but it sounds interesting.

I'm not sure what would have caused Tuthmosis IV to recarve the head though. Unless it was so severely weatered / damaged that it was necessary?
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CSM
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much for the link. An interesting read to say the least...
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
... possibly Tuthmosis IV not only placed the dream stela between the paws after clearing the monument of excessive sand, but may have also done a touch up on the face. ...

The Sphinx had an twisted gods beard (see fragments in London : EA 58 ---> http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlight_objects/aes/f/fragment_of_the_beard_of_the_g.aspx and Cairo).

This type of beard we don`t know from the Old Kingdom ...

Greetings, Lutz.
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Osiris II
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know what you mean by "twisted", Lutz.
The portion in the BM is just the usual braided false beard.
Actually, the dis-proportion of the head compared to the body is a very stong suggestive element that the head was re-carved at some time. Anneke's suggestion of a "touch-up" makes sense.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Osiris II wrote:
I don't know what you mean by "twisted" ...

With "twisted" I mean "twisted" Laughing (German : "geflochten" and French : "tordu"...).

Here :

http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Datei:Khafra_-_Quefr%C3%A9n.jpg&filetimestamp=20060426152011

you can see a typical Old Kingdom beard, not twisted ...

Lutz
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:
Osiris II wrote:
I don't know what you mean by "twisted" ...

With "twisted" I mean "twisted" Laughing (German : "geflochten" and French : "tordu"...).

After some thinking about now I know what the problem was : misunderstanding in translation, sorry. Braided (not twisted) is the right word in English for German "geflochten".

But
Osiris II wrote:
... the usual braided false beard ...


(in German "Götterbart" - "gods beard") is, as far as I know, contemporary not attested for statues of kings from the Old Kingdom. Most of them show this version :

Khafra - Quefrén - Wikipedia

Maybe the braided beard for kings is connected with the rise of Osiris ? But I can not remember seen a statue of a Middle Kingdom king with this beard ... Idea

Sphinx of King Senwosret III - MMA New York

Greetings,

Lutz
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creamcrackered
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i heard somewhere that the sphinx used to have wings. is this true. if so what happened to them.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

creamcrackered wrote:
i heard somewhere that the sphinx used to have wings. is this true. if so what happened to them.


I have never heard of the Sphinx in Giza having wings.
And I think that having stretched out wings would be almost impossible the sculpt at that scale?

I think there may be other depictions of sphinxes with wings? Maybe flattened/folded against the body though:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always thought the the Greek Sphinx had wings...the Egyptian Sphinx is something else entirely and would not even be known as "The Sphinx" if it weren't for the Greeks...
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CSM wrote:
I always thought the the Greek Sphinx had wings...the Egyptian Sphinx is something else entirely and would not even be known as "The Sphinx" if it weren't for the Greeks...


CSM? Cigarette Smoking Man?

Showing my former Philedom.
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Patrick Giles
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, a typical Old Kingdom beard is not braided (or twisted). It is corrugated (ribbed). In other words, it has horizontal lines across the front. The Sphinx head was probably recarved two or three times at least. It probably resembled Pharaoh Khafra originally, but today it looks like Pharaoh Senwosret. Petrie thought it resembled a Middle Kingdom pharaoh. The beard was probably attached during the New Kingdom (or even later). I tend to believe that the original scupture of the sphinx was actually Anubis. A very convincing book has been written about this, but I forgot the name. I'll post it later.
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CSM
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patrick Giles wrote:
I tend to believe that the original scupture of the sphinx was actually Anubis. A very convincing book has been written about this, but I forgot the name. I'll post it later.


The big you are referring to is "The Sanctuary of Anubis" by Robert Temple. I have just finished reading it. Some compelling arguments but overall I am still on the fence so to speak...
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or one of the other "protective" gods (Sekhmet, or even Bastet; the first in her Lioness form, the latter as the ferocious cat she can be... Given the paws, any cat-alike could do ... Smile

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Patrick Giles wrote:
I tend to believe that the original scupture of the sphinx was actually Anubis. A very convincing book has been written about this, but I forgot the name. I'll post it later.


The BOOK you are referring to is "The Sanctuary of Anubis" by Robert Temple. I have just finished reading it. Some compelling arguments but overall I am still on the fence so to speak...
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