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Parameses

 
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chillie
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:49 pm    Post subject: Parameses Reply with quote

Does anyone know where Rameses I's family comes from? What was their connection to the Delta (where Rameses II built).
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Osiris II
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taken from touregypt:

Ramesses was not of royal blood, but rather a career army officer who was the son of a troop commander and judge named Seti. His mother is unknown. His family came from the north-eastern Delta area of Avaris (probably modern Tell el-Dab'a), which had been the capital of the Hyksos invaders some 400 years earlier. We do know of one of his wives named Sitre, who's parentage is unknown but who was probably the daughter of another army officer. Together, Ramesses I and Sitre had one son, Seti I, who held the titles vizier and Troop Commander under his father prior to succeeding him. He also may have served as a co-regent with his father.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See also the 400 year stela:
http://www.touregypt.net/400yearstele.htm

Seti is described there as being the son of Paramesse and Tiu

And Paramesse is given the following titles:
the Prince regent, the mayor of the town, the vizier, the chief of the archers, the governor of the fortress of Tjarw, the royal scribe, the administrative officer of the chariotry, Paramesse [12], right of voice

As governor of Tjarw he would have lived in the eastern Delta - or at least worked there. It also shows Paramesse was an army man before becoming vizier.
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neseret
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This article is also worth reading:

Cruz-Uribe, E. 1978. The Father of Ramses I: OI 11456. JNES 37/3: 237-244.

which has this image of the original Ramesside family:



The actual rendering of Ramses I's father's name is /swty/, which as Cruz-Uribe notes, is not written with the Seth-animal, as one finds in the name "Sety." This Swty is a troop commander, but is not the same as the Swty listed in Amarna documents, as per Legrain (1914) and Yoyotte (1954), and contra Petrie (1905).

Meanwhile, the brother of Swty, Khaemwaset, is identified to the same Khaemwaset who was the "Fanbearer to the Right of the King" during the reign of Tutankhamun, and with the additional title of /Hry-pDt n kS/, literally, the "chief bowman of Kush", which was the equivalent of deputy viceroy of Kush. Khaemwaset's wife, named /tA-m-wAD.sy/, is known to have been the sister of the Viceroy of Kush under Tutankhamun, Huy. So, the association of a member of the Ramesside family with a high official in the Tutankhamun administration (via the family of the viceroy of Kush), indicates the political climb of the family from relative obscurity in the Delta to the eventual reins of power after the death of Horemheb.

As I noted in a previous post, Paramessu replaced Horemheb's scribe (and designated lieutenant, which in this case means 'one who acts in place of or represents a superior') Sementawy during the former's position as General of the Armies during Tutankhamun's reign (Martin 1991: 72-73), and from there Paramessu's association with Horemheb as his main "comrade in arms" was assured, which led to Paramessu's sure but steady rise in administration when Horemheb became king.



Reference:

Cruz-Uribe, E. 1978. The Father of Ramses I: OI 11456. JNES 37/3: 237-244.

Legrain, G. 1905. Les Statues de Paramessou, fils des Seti. ASAE 14: 29-38.

Martin, G. T. 1991. The Hidden Tombs of Memphis: New Discoveries from the Times of Tutankhamun and Ramesses the Great. New Aspects of Antiquity. C. Renfrew. New York: Thames and Hudson.

Yoyotte, J. 1954. Trois généraux de la XIXe dynastie.(A propos de l'Egyptien Suta, KUB III, 57). Orientalia 23: 223-231.

HTH.
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