Go to the Egyptian Dreams shop
Egyptian Dreams
Ancient Egypt Discussion Board
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Nubian Crafts
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Nubia
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Segereh
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 2934
Location: Bruges

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:46 pm    Post subject: Nubian Crafts Reply with quote



I stumbled upon this little picture and thought it was too beautiful not to mention.
It's a ram's head amulet from the 25th dynasty (ca. 770–657BC), made of gold and only a 4.2 x 3.6 cm big.
It was probably made for a necklace worn by one of the Kushite kings.
These pharaohs are often shown wearing a ram's head amulet.
This was then tied around the neck on a thick cord, the ends falling forward over the shoulders.
Sometimes a smaller ram's head was attached to each end.
Rams were associated with the god Amun, particularly in Nubia, where he was revered as well.
The Nubians were superb goldsmiths, need it be said?


_________________
"Leave him in error who loves his error."
"Learn politeness from the impolite."

Feel free to visit my site in construction:
-- www.enks.net --
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Segereh
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 2934
Location: Bruges

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stumbled upon something else, looking for that second pic... Smile
Please compare.




The first two are Shabaqa and Taharqa.
The third is an Olmec (Mexican) colossus.

This has been used to defend an African origin of this people in euhm... rather radical sites and reviews. It sounds pretty absurd and frankly, seeing how these stories are told, I wouldn't want to have anything to do with it. But still, there's a small likeness, no?
_________________
"Leave him in error who loves his error."
"Learn politeness from the impolite."

Feel free to visit my site in construction:
-- www.enks.net --
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
isisinacrisis
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 2228
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard those theories before too...and to think I actually believed them! Well, I was only young and naive back then. Still, ya never know.
_________________
High-Priestess of Isis, Hereditary Princess, Lady of Philae, Favourite of Osiris, the Lord of Abydos, Daughter of Horus, Chantress of Bastet, Superior of the Kitty Litter Wink
<---Check out my av-I made it myself Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Segereh
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 2934
Location: Bruges

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a "veteran" on that front by now: you're never sure what's right or wrong.
The best lies - even if unintended - are mixed with truth and logics. Wink
_________________
"Leave him in error who loves his error."
"Learn politeness from the impolite."

Feel free to visit my site in construction:
-- www.enks.net --
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
isisinacrisis
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 2228
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well just to let you know, I don't debunk fringe theories just 'cos they don't fit into the mainstream. I don't agree with theories that are too far fetched, but will accept certain alternative ideas. it's just over the years my scepticism has increased and I'm trying to keep a balance between being over-sceptical and being gullible.
_________________
High-Priestess of Isis, Hereditary Princess, Lady of Philae, Favourite of Osiris, the Lord of Abydos, Daughter of Horus, Chantress of Bastet, Superior of the Kitty Litter Wink
<---Check out my av-I made it myself Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Segereh
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 22 Apr 2004
Posts: 2934
Location: Bruges

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad u said 'keep a balance'. I'm way too sceptic most of the times.
Yet I amaze myself how easily I can be swept away by something if I want it to be true.
_________________
"Leave him in error who loves his error."
"Learn politeness from the impolite."

Feel free to visit my site in construction:
-- www.enks.net --
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
isisinacrisis
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 2228
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2004 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Yet I amaze myself how easily I can be swept away by something if I want it to be true.


Yeah, I'm guilty of that too Laughing
_________________
High-Priestess of Isis, Hereditary Princess, Lady of Philae, Favourite of Osiris, the Lord of Abydos, Daughter of Horus, Chantress of Bastet, Superior of the Kitty Litter Wink
<---Check out my av-I made it myself Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kinhshea
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 18
Location: New York, USA

PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Olmecs were not said to be nubian, but that Africans had contact with Native American tribes for thousands of years. The ocean current betweeen Africa and South America is extremely friendly. If people can believe that Vikings came before Columbus, and the Chinese, why not people of African origins? (especially when Africa is closer then Eurasia to the Americas). I find that peoples view of history seems to be selective, especially when it comes to Western history, and in order to uphold their bias views of the west and it's history; will filter out any evidence to the contrary.
_________________
"When lies repeated over and over again become accepted as truth and is
repeated unanimously by all, some might consider speaking the genuine
truth to be foolish, crazy and even dangerous...
But I consider it my duty."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That Olmec statue is quite familiar to anyone who's ever opened a book on Central and South American history. I myself have very little familiarity with the ancient tribes of that region, beyond the anthropology in my college days.

But there is nothing racist about deciding against African influence in South America. There is no evidence for it. The vague similarity seen in the face of a monolitic statue is not evidence. I know of no ancient African civilization that had developed naval technology advanced enough to cross either ocean. People of black stock did not arrive in the "New World" until the horrible days of the slave trade. Had they been in ancient South or Central America for any notbale length of time, there would be evidence of it to this day, and not necessarily in artwork. Mixing of peoples always has lasting effects on language, for instance, and there is no trace of African tongues in the indigenous languages of South and Central America, and vice versa.

I don't think people need to go looking in the wrong places for the greatness of African cultures, because that greatest exists to this day in Africa. All of the tribes of black Africa have a rich and colorful heritage. The ancient Nubians (the ancestors of the peoples of the northern Sudan) are a perfect example.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
anneke
Queen of Egypt
Queen of Egypt


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 9305

PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmt_sesh wrote:

I don't think people need to go looking in the wrong places for the greatness of African cultures, because that greatest exists to this day in Africa. All of the tribes of black Africa have a rich and colorful heritage. The ancient Nubians (the ancestors of the peoples of the northern Sudan) are a perfect example.


I really find the Nubians very interesting. It sounds like they had many different smaller Kingdoms like Wawat, Medja and some others that escape my memory.
The history seems to go back some 5000 years.
It appears to me as though the Nubians never quite united the way that the Egyptians did. It probably would have been easier for them to withstand the Egyptian incursions if they were.
I get the impression that excavating has been difficult in recent times because of the political unrest in those areas.
I would love to learn more about how their culture developed.

It's always intrigued me that the Medjay were such great soldiers and that the megjay became the egyptian term for police. They somehow represented order (highly regarded by the egyptians). The Medjay were also represented by a feather in their headdress. The feather was also the symbol of Maat. COnincidence? Or is there something more beneath the surface?
_________________
Math and Art: http://mathematicsaroundus.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It appears to me as though the Nubians never quite united the way that the Egyptians did. It probably would have been easier for them to withstand the Egyptian incursions if they were.


That's certainly true. The Nubians remained a tribal people long after the Egyptians formed their nation, and could never organize effectively against the Egyptians. Things may have been considerably different had the Nubians been able to band together cohesively. It's much the same problem this very day, with the fighting and violence there: tribal factions grasping at each other's throats and killing countless innocents along the way.

Quote:
The Medjay were also represented by a feather in their headdress. The feather was also the symbol of Maat. COnincidence?


That depends. Do you know from which bird the Medjay feather came? The feather of Maat was an ostrich plume. It would make sense. Pharaoh represented the very essence and preservation of maat in Egyptian society, so it would be logical for the Medjay to wear the same emblem as protectors of the man who maintained maat.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
kinhshea
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 18
Location: New York, USA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmt_sesh wrote:
That Olmec statue is quite familiar to anyone who's ever opened a book on Central and South American history. I myself have very little familiarity with the ancient tribes of that region, beyond the anthropology in my college days.

But there is nothing racist about deciding against African influence in South America. There is no evidence for it. The vague similarity seen in the face of a monolitic statue is not evidence. I know of no ancient African civilization that had developed naval technology advanced enough to cross either ocean. People of black stock did not arrive in the "New World" until the horrible days of the slave trade. Had they been in ancient South or Central America for any notbale length of time, there would be evidence of it to this day, and not necessarily in artwork. Mixing of peoples always has lasting effects on language, for instance, and there is no trace of African tongues in the indigenous languages of South and Central America, and vice versa.



You yourself said you had no familiarity with ancient tribes in American regions, so the "lack of evidence" is more so "lack of knowledge" on your part. You don't know of "people of a black stock" developing naval technogology because in history and archaeology, that is the kind of information left out. You can possibly read "they came before columbus", which goes into detail about the olmecs and gives many different types of evidence for naval technology by those of which you refer to as a "black stock". It's foolhardy to say there is no evidence of something, especially when you havent studied it. And to deny that "people of a black stock" had naval technology, or advanced civilization may not be racist, but it is biased. The evidence of many black ethnic groups living in America well before the slave trade is out there but you have to look for it.
_________________
"When lies repeated over and over again become accepted as truth and is
repeated unanimously by all, some might consider speaking the genuine
truth to be foolish, crazy and even dangerous...
But I consider it my duty."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Amen-Ra™
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 39
Location: Thebes, in a dark room

PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i watched a television broadcast of ancient civilization of south america and it showed how it became in to being. the story/hypothesis is some ancient polynesian people where very good sea traveler the use the stars to guide the in there journey. it is said they come from a island called mo/mu or some thing like that i dont know. anyways the early factions of civilization the Olmec were one of them this statue looks like a polynesian well to me as you look at close releative of them. also i seen the first dynastic leader of the mayas and the looked like maybe one of the easter island statues. as you see the statue it looked like a hybred of the original mongols/inuet people i thinks and of polynesians i mean real polynesians. the mix like indochinese. anyway it is said that the influence from that speard to diffrent parts of the south and lower north american landscape. it is said that it has aspects of the originals civilization that broke off.
_________________
"Amen-Ra, lord of the thrones of the two lands, the "dweller" in Thebes, the great god appeareth in the horizon"

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kmt_sesh
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 13 Nov 2004
Posts: 7099
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You yourself said you had no familiarity with ancient tribes in American regions, so the "lack of evidence" is more so "lack of knowledge" on your part.


[bold emphasis is mine]

I did not say I have "no" familiarity. I said I have "very little" familiarity. Had I possessed none whatsoever, I would not have even commented. I was comparing familiarity on this subject with that which I have of ancient Egypt, constituting more than 20 years of study. I have in fact studied Native North Americans extensively and to a much lesser degree Native South Americans, enough so to comment.

There simply is no evidence of black peoples occupying South America prior to the slave trade having brought them there. In all my years of the study of anthropology I have never encountered a bit of credible, established historical study claiming otherwise. What I have come across is alternative history, such as what instigated this particular thread, but by definition alternative history is not credible.

Quote:
You don't know of "people of a black stock" developing naval technogology because in history and archaeology, that is the kind of information left out.


It is unfortunate that you believe this still to be true. Yes, in the past, the achievements of the societies of black Africa were neglected, but that sort of selective research was tossed in the scrap-heap of study long, long ago, and that's where it belongs. The histories of black Africa have been extensively studied and continue to be studied. I know of no African civilization from ancient times--including the Egyptians--that developed the sort of naval technology that could have carried them completely across the oceans. They were all coastal sailors--this is well known. If you have credible sources that say otherwise, I would appreciate knowing about them because I would find it fascinating and eye-opening reading (not a web site, please--give me the name of a book or books authored by respected historians).

Quote:
And to deny that "people of a black stock" had naval technology, or advanced civilization may not be racist, but it is biased.


It is neither racist nor biased. It is simple fact and in no way demeans any civilization of ancient Africa. You needn't take it that way. We discuss turth here as history has recorded it. We do not make things up. The people here on Egyptian Dreams are the most open-minded of any Egyptian forum I've found. I have yet to read anything racist or biased here.

One area of study in which I am particularly interested is languages. I love languages. You didn't comment on that part of my post, which I mentioned in my closing words. I'll reiterate that there is no evidence of cross-cultural mixing of languages between ancient South America and Africa. Had there been any significant contact between the two, languages would bear evidence. There is no such evidence.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
KENNDO
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:02 pm    Post subject: nubia Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
kmt_sesh wrote:

I don't think people need to go looking in the wrong places for the greatness of African cultures, because that greatest exists to this day in Africa. All of the tribes of black Africa have a rich and colorful heritage. The ancient Nubians (the ancestors of the peoples of the northern Sudan) are a perfect example.


I really find the Nubians very interesting. It sounds like they had many different smaller Kingdoms like Wawat, Medja and some others that escape my memory.
The history seems to go back some 5000 years.
It appears to me as though the Nubians never quite united the way that the Egyptians did. It probably would have been easier for them to withstand the Egyptian incursions if they were.
I get the impression that excavating has been difficult in recent times because of the political unrest in those areas.
I would love to learn more about how their culture developed.

It's always intrigued me that the Medjay were such great soldiers and that the megjay became the egyptian term for police. They somehow represented order (highly regarded by the egyptians). The Medjay were also represented by a feather in their headdress. The feather was also the symbol of Maat. COnincidence? Or is there something more beneath the surface?





I know i am respondimg to this topic late but i just happen to just seen this and i have done a reseach the nubians for many years and i am new here so here it goes.

The nubians at kerma were always great at stoping the egyptian invasions until the new kingdom and even than they alaways rebelled and ot there freedom in 1085b.c.

let's not forgot that nubian civilization started much earlier than people think.
recent findings suggest back to 5000 to 8000 b.c.
in upper nubia.

kerma during the time egypt was split into was more powerful than egypt and they raided upper egyptian areas all the time and they could have conquered all of upper egypt right there but they were only looking for egyptian wealth,so nubia was united except for southern nubia,southern nubia was never conqured by egypt by the way.

as you know after 1085 b.c. nubia was just as powerful as egypy and became more powerful and they even conquered egypt.

after they left egypt the kushite nubian empire and later nubian kingdoms remain more powerful than egypt and more advanced,even rome and greece and the arabs could not conquer it.nubia was able to later in ancient times and later on to have the naval tech. to reach the new world.
nubian civilization still remain today.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Nubia All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group