Go to the Egyptian Dreams shop
Egyptian Dreams
Ancient Egypt Discussion Board
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Stela of a girl named Kiya

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Evidence from Amarna
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
anneke
Queen of Egypt
Queen of Egypt


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 9305

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:03 pm    Post subject: Stela of a girl named Kiya Reply with quote

This is a stela from the British museum:


See: Object on the BM website

I found it interesting that the daughter is called Kyia (Kiya). The dating of the stela is just roughly estimated as new kingdom. But late 18th dynasty seems reasonable? The heavy thighs of the girl and the facial features are interesting in that respect.

The mother is named the Lady of the House Ta-mi-iti-seth ? (Hope I'm close) Not sure I've ever seen that name before.
The mother is wearing a rather elaborate wig. And she is sitting on a chair whose legs feature lions feet. I'm not sure if that's considered royal at that time. I suspect not, because the titles of the mother seem to indicate nobility?

The daughter is dressed in a long flowing dress. Her hairdo is interesting. The lock of hear almost looks like a sidelock, but there is also a strand of hair in the back.

Identifying this young woman as the wife of Akhenaten seems a bit of a rash conclusion based on not much evidence Very Happy
But it is interesting to see a young woman of that name. It's not so very common. It's also possible that this young woman / girl was from a slightly later period and named after the Queen. Who knows.

Just wanted to see what people thought of the scene.

The mother looks a bit like Tut's wet nurse Maia qua wig:



Just to be clear: I'm not implying a connection between the mother and Maia. It's just that the depcition of the mother and daughter on the stela seem to indicate people of high nobility based on the wigs and the dress. Not to mention the fact that the carving seems to be of high quality.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
neseret
Vizier
Vizier


Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 1033
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Stela of a girl named Kiya Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
This is a stela from the British museum:


See: Object on the BM website

<snip>
The mother is named the Lady of the House Ta-mi-iti-seth ? (Hope I'm close) Not sure I've ever seen that name before.


No, the name is (as best as I can see it) is /tA-mi(w)-iti/ + a cat determinative. Hence, the name means "she-cat", or perhaps more of a diminutive, "she-kitten."

Great sultry name for the period, I suppose.

Ranke lists it as a personal name, usually for a female (Ranke 1935: 357a). It compares in glyph elements with the inscription to the favourite cat of Crown Prince Thutmose, called /tA-miAt/, The She-Cat.

Reference:

Ranke, H. 1935-1977. Die ägyptischen Personennamen. Glückstadt: J. J. Augustin.

HTH.
_________________
Katherine Griffis-Greenberg

Doctoral Candidate
Oriental Institute
Oriental Studies
Doctoral Programme [Egyptology]
Oxford University
Oxford, United Kingdom
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anneke
Queen of Egypt
Queen of Egypt


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 9305

PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Stela of a girl named Kiya Reply with quote

neseret wrote:


No, the name is (as best as I can see it) is /tA-mi(w)-iti/ + a cat determinative. Hence, the name means "she-cat", or perhaps more of a diminutive, "she-kitten."

Great sultry name for the period, I suppose.

Ranke lists it as a personal name, usually for a female (Ranke 1935: 357a). It compares in glyph elements with the inscription to the favourite cat of Crown Prince Thutmose, called /tA-miAt/, The She-Cat.


Thanks for clearing that up neseret.
Very Happy And you're right that does sound like a sultry name!

It's a nice looking stela
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Aset
Priest
Priest


Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 762
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Ranke, H. 1935-1977. Die ägyptischen Personennamen. Glückstadt: J. J. Augustin.



Aset
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 4176
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aset wrote:
Quote:
Ranke, H. 1935-1977. Die ägyptischen Personennamen. Glückstadt: J. J. Augustin.


There is another one ... at Kunsthistorisches Museum, Vienna, Austria :





For details see : http://www.globalegyptianmuseum.org/detail.aspx?id=4725

Greetings, Lutz.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
anneke
Queen of Egypt
Queen of Egypt


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 9305

PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had always thought that Kiya was a rather rare name. But I guess there were other women named Kiya, as these artifacts show. And dating to the time after Amarna, they seem to indicate that even though Kiya's monuments were taken over, her name at least was not an "undesirable" one.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Seshat
Scribe
Scribe


Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 132

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen pictures of this stela and wondered the same thing. I'd be inclined to translate mum's name as Ta-miit with that second I being misplaced for symmetry? Ta miit is a really popular name from the rammeside period through the Libyan period. So is it's male counterpart, Pa-miw. I think it's cute though maybe not too accurate to think it's equivalent is "Kitty."
It's odd, but I seem to remember the rarity of the name Kiya being am indication of the queen's foreignness and thus an excuse to identify her as thadukhepa or gilukhepa, or being a pet name for a loose woman, being a corruption of the Egyptian word for monkey. If it was a normal respectable Egyptian name can these theories be disregarded?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
neseret
Vizier
Vizier


Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 1033
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seshat wrote:
It's odd, but I seem to remember the rarity of the name Kiya being am indication of the queen's foreignness and thus an excuse to identify her as thadukhepa or gilukhepa, or being a pet name for a loose woman, being a corruption of the Egyptian word for monkey. If it was a normal respectable Egyptian name can these theories be disregarded?


The theories such as these presume that such "foreign" queens were always given "Egyptian" names to get them to assimilate into the culture. Such occurs with Ramses II's queen, Maathorneferure, whose real name as daughter of the Hittie king Hattusilis is now lost.

Most Egyptologists of my acquaintance (but not all, I assure you) believe that Kiya was an Egyptian woman whom Akhenaten married. Not a queen from another country, but possibly someone the king knew from the palace and simply was attracted to, loved, wed and then elevated to the position of his second wife, who held the unique title of /Hmt mrryt aAt/, "Greatly Beloved Wife."

If, as is theorised Kiya is the mother of Tutankhamun, then the title of /Hmt mrryt aAt/takes on even greater meaning, for even as second in the queenly hierarchical structure, she then also became the "mother of the king (to-be)" (/mwt nswt/) and would have had greater influence in court than Nefertiti, who bore only daughters to Akhetaten.

However, we do not know for a fact that Kiya is Tutankhamun's mother (despite Dr. Hawass' assurance that she is); we do not know for a fact that she survived to the end of Akhenaten's reign (though she may have), and we do not know if this title Kiya possessed gave her any power in Akhenaten's court. All are theories, and sadly, to date, none that can be proved.

HTH.
_________________
Katherine Griffis-Greenberg

Doctoral Candidate
Oriental Institute
Oriental Studies
Doctoral Programme [Egyptology]
Oxford University
Oxford, United Kingdom
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Evidence from Amarna All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group