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Amarna Reliefs from Hermopolis
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punkow
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote





so here you go with the scan ("prince tut" is in the first one)!
as you can see, i also added a scan of the only block in roeder's book with evidence of "king neferneferuaten" (block 826-VIII A) and another one where you can see two male (?) royal figures directly behind each other - whoever this may be... Cool
on the "prince tut" scan you'll also find a rarely mentioned variant of the titulary of one of the "phantom" granddaughters... (anchesenpaaten ta-sherit born of the king's bodily daughter anchesenpaaten born of the great royal wife neferneferuaten nefertiti)

hope you enjoy the pics and share your thoughts -
if the scans are illegal, feel free to delete!

dirk
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punkow
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Great! I'll start going through my Kate Bush albums to prepare a hymn for you.


i'm really curious about the results!
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Rozette
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

punkow,

Thanks for posting these interesting pictures Razz !!!!!!!!!!

In "Essay's on Ancient Egypt in Honour of Herman te Velde" page 38, Jacobus van Dijk writes that Tut's block 831-VIII C after close examination of the photograph, reveals that there are traces of what appears to be an underlying, i.e. erased text.

Has anyone ever heard of this before?
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks a LOT, Dirk.
Really great stuff there!
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Khuy-n-inpw
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rozette wrote:


In "Essay's on Ancient Egypt in Honour of Herman te Velde" page 38, Jacobus van Dijk writes that Tut's block 831-VIII C after close examination of the photograph, reveals that there are traces of what appears to be an underlying, i.e. erased text.


Wacky suggestion:

Kiya disliked the Atenist regime and wished to call her son Tutankhamun, but didn’t dare say so openly.

The wisest course, then, for a mere royal wife, would be to disagree on a technical point over the name – doesn’t like ‘Tutankhaten’ – couldn’t we call him ‘Tutankhenuyaten’? – no, change it again… etc.

Then the king overhears an ill-motivated remark: “All this erasure and re-writing. I don’t know. Where will it end?”

In other words, the naming of the baby was the focus, expressed in guarded, coded terms, for the bitter factional struggle of which Kiya was an early victim and into which the regime eventually collapsed.
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh and I forgot...
Still clearing my throat and exercising.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for sharing those Dirk.

The inscription mentioning Ankhesenpaaten tasherit is intriguing. I had often read that many of the inscription mentioning Ankhesenpaaten-junior were more or less from usurped monuments.
This lengthy inscription mentioning that she's the daughter of Ankhesenpaaten en grand-daughter of Nefertiti is rather long and it looks to me that it might be hard to have another similar text but mentioning Kiya underneath?

There are some pieces that show images being recut:
435 VII A for instance reminds me a lot of the images usually thought to be Kiya, but replaced by Meritaten. Here Ankhesenpaaten seems to be replacing someone.

Does block 826-VIII A really mention King Neferneferuaten? (I have a hard time reading the glyphs). Because right next to it Ankhesenpaaten is referred to as the King's daughter of his body and his beloved.
The juxtaposition almost seems to say that Ankhesenpaaten is the bodily daughter of "King Neferneferuaten" then?
Although I guess a devils advocate would point out this is too fragmentary and that Akhenaten could have been mentioned nearby in the scene.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rozette wrote:
In "Essay's on Ancient Egypt in Honour of Herman te Velde" page 38, Jacobus van Dijk writes that Tut's block 831-VIII C after close examination of the photograph, reveals that there are traces of what appears to be an underlying, i.e. erased text.

Has anyone ever heard of this before?


Forgot to mention: I just last week came across this same article and it was the first time I had ever heard about it.
Van Dijk states that not enough of the erased text is visible to give a reconstruction at this point.

The way the text starts with the nesw sign with the breadloaf almost makes it look to my (admittedly layman's) eyes as though the text originally could have referred to a king's daughter?

It's hard to say what could or could not have been there given that the surrounding texts and images are missing.

It would be great to see how Tut was depicted for instance.
Sidelock of youth? Small pharaoh?
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kmt_sesh
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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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10 in a row, Anneke... I'm the uncrowned King of back-to-back posts...


Most impressive, Segereh. However, one might wish to check some of Amun's posts to see if he's topped you yet. Razz

A very special thanks to punkow for posting those photos. I've never seen them before and they're very interesting!
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Khuy-n-inpw
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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Embarassed Forgot to say thank you to punkow for the images! Smile
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Gerard.
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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
I had often read that many of the inscription mentioning Ankhesenpaaten-junior were more or less from usurped monuments.
IMO at the Maru-Aten and mainly (or only) with Merytaten-junior.
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punkow
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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Does block 826-VIII A really mention King Neferneferuaten? (I have a hard time reading the glyphs).


here´s the block in better resolution:



i think it´s indeed quite interesting that anchesenpaaten was obviously depicted right behind "king" neferneferuaten, facing in the same direction. it makes me think of the "coregency stela", where there might have been a similar kind of constellation?!

dirk
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Gerard.
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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO block 826-VIII is more likely Great Queen Neferneferuaten-Nefertiti.
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Gerard.
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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, my above message is foolish. Even incomplete, the cartouche shows Neferneferuaten. This very partial text makes me think of stele UC410 (ie. Ankhkeperure & Ankhesenpaaten according to M.Gabolde).
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Khuy-n-inpw
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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Gerard, for venturing these opinions.

Above the cartouche I read z3 ra (‘son of Ra’) rather than wrt (‘great’ fem.). The bird looks like a pintail duck, not a swallow. Look how the neck curves. In addition, the sign to the right of it looks completely circular.

I agree about the contents of the cartouche, though, which seem to resemble closely those seen in the reconstruction of block 451-VIIA.

emhotep
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