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Nefertkau - G 7050
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:35 pm    Post subject: Nefertkau - G 7050 Reply with quote

Princess Nefertkau came up in another discussion.
I find her rather interesting.

Reisner mentions her , her mastaba and he speculates about her family relations in his diary:
Quote:
Sunday, January 17, 1926 (continued)

<..>

(4) G 7050
In course of clearing Street G 7000 S, continued exposing east face of G 7050, to north side of recess for offering room. The size and position of this tomb and its structural type seems to indicate that it is not later than Khafre's reign, that its owner was of the Khufu family. Further the order of the three tombs south of G I-c was clearly (1) G 7050; (2) G 7060 (Lepsius 57); and (3) G 7070 (Lepsius 56). Now as G 7060 was the father of G 7070, it is possible that G 7050 was the tomb of the mother of G 7060:
1) G 7050--?Princess Nefretkau eldest daughter of Sneferu (and wife of Khufu?).
2) G 7060--Prince Nefermaat son of Nefretkau.
3) G 7070--Sneferukhaf, son of Nefermaat.


Nefertkau is a King’s Daughter of his Body. And may very well be a daughter of Sneferu. Her son was called Nefermaat (II) and may have been named after Nefertkau's brother Nefermaat I, who was buried at Meidum.

I find Reisner's speculation that Nefertkau was married to Khufu inetresting.
For as far as I know there is no evidence of a husband in her tomb.
She had a son, so she must have had a spouse at some point.

Nefermaat II's mastaba is numbered G 7060. In this tomb his mother Nefertkau is mentioned, his son Snefrukhaf is mentioned and an individual Tadihor (?). Tadihor was a female, and her name was found on a fragment of a shabti. Not sure if that was from the 4th dynasty or could have been intrusive?

Interesting that he mentions his mother, but not his father.

Sethe had concluded that Nefermaat was the son of a marriage between Sneferu and his daughter Nefertkau.
Reisner argues that the inscription in the tomb of Nefermaat really reads "King of Upper and Lower Egypt" Sneferu, his eldest daughter Nefertkau, her son Nefermaat.

So NOT a statement referring to Nefermaat as Sneferu's son.

Nefermaat, Nefertkau's son, does bear the title King's Son. And her grandson also bears the title King's Son. "King's Son" can also refer to a grandson of a King.
Reisner proposes that Nefertkau was the wife of Khufu. So that Nefermaat was truly a King's son (of Khufu), while his son Sneferukhaf was in truth a grandson of King Khufu.

Reisner mentions that the exact meaning of some titles in the old kingdom is not entirely clear. But personally I find the theory that Nefertkau married her brother Khufu plausible.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Other Nefertkaus in the 4th dynasty include:

Nefertkau II, wife of Khufukhaf I and likely daughter-in-law of Khufu.
She was buried in G 7130. I wonder if she was a daughter of Khufu and named after the first Nefertkau???

There's a Nefertkau III. She may be a daughter of Meresankh II and Horbaf and she may be a grand-daughter of Khufu. She later married Iynefer.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Nefertkau was interesting. What her name means? I know that nefer is beautiful, and ka is a part of an Egyptian soul.

So what you think:were there two Nefermaats or just one?

I heard that Nefermaat II had Sneferukhaf (obviously named after Sneferu), and Sneferukhaf had two sons, but names are not known. Tadihor was maybe a wife of Sneferukhaf, or his daughter.

Is here maybe a discussion about Hetepheres II? She is interesting to me because in her tomb she is depicted as blonde. This is probably just a blonde wig, not her natural hair colour.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you heard about Queen Djefatnebti? She was, I think, mother of Hetepheres I, who was a half-sister to Sneferu.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iynefer was married? What means word "iy"?
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hathorhotep wrote:
Yes, Nefertkau was interesting. What her name means? I know that nefer is beautiful, and ka is a part of an Egyptian soul.

I'm not sure. Neferet means beautiful. I have no idea how the "kau" part of her name was written. So I'm not sure if it really refers to the ka (soul) or not.

Hathorhotep wrote:
So what you think:were there two Nefermaats or just one?

Yes there seem to be 2 Nefermaats. The eldest was the son of Sneferu, the younger one was a grandson. They had different tombs and different families, so I think that points to 2 individuals.

Hathorhotep wrote:
I heard that Nefermaat II had Sneferukhaf (obviously named after Sneferu), and Sneferukhaf had two sons, but names are not known. Tadihor was maybe a wife of Sneferukhaf, or his daughter.


Sneferukhaf was Treasurer of the King of Lower Egypt and Herdsman of Apis, etc. Two small sons are depicted in Sneferukhaf's Chapel. (Porter and Moss)

Hathorhotep wrote:
Is here maybe a discussion about Hetepheres II? She is interesting to me because in her tomb she is depicted as blonde. This is probably just a blonde wig, not her natural hair colour.


We had discussed the appearance as a blonde:

The women are apparently wearing some type of khat headdress or wig. It's not depicting hair according to the latest thinking.
They are referred to as blondes in the old literature (ca 1927 or so)
See for instance:
http://www.gizapyramids.org/pdf%20library/bmfa_pdfs/bmfa25_1927_63to79.pdf

They now think these wigs/headdresses do not indicate blond hair:
"On the right end of the west wall are three principal
standing figures, respectively of Hetepheres, Mersyankh,
and the latter's son Nebemakhet (fig. 7). The robe with
pointed shoulders and the yellow wig with red lines of
the first figure have been often described and discussed.
It is now generally accepted that the yellow wig does not
imply that the queen had blond hair.''
http://www.gizapyramids.org/pdf%20library/giza_mastabas/giza_mastabas_1/part_1_pages_1_to_6.pdf


This come from this source:
http://www.gizapyramids.org/code/emuseum.asp?newpage=library
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hathorhotep wrote:
Do you heard about Queen Djefatnebti? She was, I think, mother of Hetepheres I, who was a half-sister to Sneferu.


Djefatnebti: Royal lady from the end of the third dynasty. She may have been a wife of Huni. Her name appears on a vessel from Elephantine.
Titles: Great one of the hetes-sceptre (wrt-hetes).

I'm not sure there is any known connection to Hetepheres I.

Dodson and Hilton do not mention Djefatnebti at all.
Grajetzki does mention her, but it's not really known when she lived.
She seems to date to the latter part of the 3rd dynasty and that's why she is associated with Pharaoh Huni.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We know that Hetepheres I was a half-sister of Sneferu. Sneferu's mother was Meresankh I, and she was Huni's lesser wife or concubine.

It's possible that Djefatnebti was a major wife of Huni, and thus mother of Hetepheres.

If Hetepheres II was really blonde, that will mean that ancient Egyptians really were white people. I know that there is no proof for that, but Nofret, wife of Sneferu's son, is depicted with very fair face. Also, some mummies are found with blonde hair - Yuya's (what a funny name) and Tyuya, Tutankhamun's great-grandparents.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is here any discussion about ancient Egyptian race?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hathorhotep wrote:
We know that Hetepheres I was a half-sister of Sneferu. Sneferu's mother was Meresankh I, and she was Huni's lesser wife or concubine.

No we do not know for sure that Hetepheres was a half-sister of Sneferu.
All we know is that Hetepheres I was "a daughter of the god of his body" which is usually interpreted as meaning that she was the daughter of a King, and Huni seems the most likely candidate.

All we know is that Snefru was the son of Meresankh I. She seems to have carried the title King's Wife, but there is no inscription that links her to Huni.
Huni reigned for 24 years, so it is possible that Sneferu was a son of a previous king.

If you read the literature carefully you will notice that there are a lot of caveats in the statements. Meresankh I may have been the wife of Huni, Snefru may have been a son of Huni, etc.
These are possibilities not facts.

Hathorhotep wrote:
It's possible that Djefatnebti was a major wife of Huni, and thus mother of Hetepheres.

Actually the only title she is known to have is weret hetes (great one of the hetes-scepter). That does not sow a very high standing. Some think titles like maat-heru (She who sees Horus) shows higher standing.

So in the end we don't know if Djefatnebti was a high ranking royal lady. She may have been a minor queen for all we know. And we don't really know whose queen she was. That is such a minor amount of information that jumping to the conclusion that she must have been important and even more so the mother of Hetepheres seems rather speculative at this point.

If this were true we would definitely need to find much more evidence for such an eventuallity.

Hathorhotep wrote:
If Hetepheres II was really blonde, that will mean that ancient Egyptians really were white people. I know that there is no proof for that, but Nofret, wife of Sneferu's son, is depicted with very fair face. Also, some mummies are found with blonde hair - Yuya's (what a funny name) and Tyuya, Tutankhamun's great-grandparents.

As I mentioned above, that idea (blondes in Egypt) has been discarded quite a while ago. Those were khat headdresses, not hair.
And women were depicted yellow-ish, while men are depicted reddish-brown. That's just an artistic convention.

Yuya actually had grey hair. And one should note that Yiya lived more than a 1000 years after Nefertkau. And by the time the 18th dynasty came around there had been an influx of people form the middle east (Hyksos) not to mention people who were part of the tribute to the pharaoh.
So whatever Yuya looked like or what his background may have been seems a bit too far removed from the time of the early 4th dynasty to allow one to draw any conclusions.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hathorhotep wrote:
Is here any discussion about ancient Egyptian race?


There's some here and there. We tend to not get into it too much.
That can get nasty quick. There are such extremes out on the internet and neither end of the spectrum is very pleasant to deal with.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We know that Sneferu's mother was Meresankh I. We think that she was a wife of Huni. And I found on many pages that Hetephers I was half-sister of Sneferu and so daughter of Huni, and if Huni had two wives, it is very possible that Djefatnebti was a mother of Hetepheres. It's possible, I don't say that is true.

I found this statement: According to this theory, Huni fathered Hetepheres from a wife and Sneferu from a concubine.

If this is true, Huni's major wife may have been Djefatnebti, and his minor wife was Meresankh, she was not of royal blood. So, Sneferu, child of Meresankh, and Hetepheres, possible child of Djefatnebti, were half-siblings. This is just a theory, but it's very possible.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks once again, your information and discussions are very interesting to me, probably because you like proofs and not just a theories.

Do you know how much Hetepheres where? According to you, there were Hetepheres I, Princess Hetephers and Hetepheres III.

And I'm sorry, I will never again ask about Egyptian race. That's very interesting theme, I think. But if Hetephers had a blonde wig, she must somewhere saw somebody who was blonde. I know that Egyptians have red and blac wigs, because there where people with red and black hair. If Hetepheres had a blonde wig, someone probably had blonde hair and she like it.

On this discussions is usual to having so much questions as I do?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you that it's a possibility. But it's hard to say exactly what the family relationships were.

I find it interesting for instance that the Egyptians themselves start a whole new dynasty with Sneferu.
Some would argue that this means he was not the son of Huni. (Assuming that dynasties correspond to ruling families). That's why most people put a question mark by the parentage of Sneferu.

Sneferu was the son of Meresankh as you mention, but we do not know who Meresankh's husband was. I can see sevral scenarios.

One is the one you mentioned. Maybe Snefru was the son of a minor wife of Huni (but usually that did not matter that much. Khufu may also have been the son of a minor queen according to Grajetzki) Maybe he married his half-sister. Who may or may not have been a daughter of Djefatnebti.

Or maybe Snefru was a (much younger) brother of Huni and married his niece?

Djefatnebti's place in the royal family is interesting. Too bad the inscription mentioning her is so damaged. It would be nice to know who she was.

Her name is a "nebti" name. Just like Hotep-hir-nebti, the wife of Djoser. Could they be related? Sisters? Mother/daughter? Or is that just a coincidence?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are a professor, very nice.

Djeseretnebti was a wife of Sekhemkhet.

Do you ever heard about Queen Shesh, wife of Djer from the first dynasty?
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