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Horus - Seth myths
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:00 am    Post subject: Horus - Seth myths Reply with quote

I was reading about early dynastic pharaohs, and came across this info from the 2nd dynasty:

Quote:


Horus Sekhemib/Set Peribsen

The fourth king of the 2nd Dynasty came to the throne under the name of Sekhemib, and reigned for 17 years. During his reign the rivalry that seemed to be left merely simmering between north or Lower Egypt and the Delta, and south or Upper Egypt, reached the boiling point once again and a period of internal unrest began. It is thought possible that the basis for the story of the Contendings between Horus and Set is dated to this time, as the followers of each deity fought for control of the throne of unified Egypt.


Whereas all the kings up to now had had a Horus name and used the Horus falcon on their royal serekhs, Sekhemib changed that. He not only changed his name from Horus Sekhemib, meaning "powerful in heart," to Set Peribsen, meaning "Hope of all hearts," but he also replaced the Horus falcon with the Set animal. His granite funerary stele from Abydos shows this serekh change.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We had discussed before if these old myths may be somehow based in historical facts.

It's interesting to see that this King went from a Horus name to a Seth name.

His succesor Khasekhemwy was known as "Horus-Set Khasekhemwy".
He included both the Horus falcon and the Set animal on his serekh.

The strife must have been really bad at this period in time.
Two seated statues of Khasekhemwy have inscribed around their bases images of contorted bodies, supposedly northern rebels, with a figure of 47,209 recorded as the number killed.

The transition to the 3rd dynasty is unclear, but it seems that the Kings of the 3rd dynasty went back to using Horus names.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This makes me curious who the "historical Isis and Osiris" would have been. They should preceed these Kings from the 2nd dynasty, but how far do we need to go to run into the equivalents of the Horus's parents?
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only woman who ruled (maybe as regent) was Meryneith. She was the wife of Djet(Wadj) and the mother of Den (Udimu)

No idea why her life would have been turned into the "Isis story" though Smile

Isis and Osiris may not have been people after all, but may represent a certain episode in history. Suggestions?
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isisinacrisis
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard theories that Isis and Osiris may have been real people too, but you seem to have sort of disproved that. Others say Isis and Osiris represent metaphors of nature, fertility or something.

What's a serekh? I really don't know about predynastic stuff so i don't know how much I can say here.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Instead of surrounding the name with a cartouche , the first pharaohs surrounded at least their Horus name with a rectangular shape that was supposed to represent a palace facade. This shape is the serekh.



This is the Horus name of King Djet ("Snake") for instance.
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Sesen
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interestingly too it seems the Old Kigdom Queens also carried the title :
"She who sees the two gods Horus and Set"

According to Christian Jacq, Les Egyptiennes:
"In other words it is in her that the two enemy brothers are reconciled."

I expect this is another example of duality and balance that was so important to their way of viewing and understanding their world.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Makes sense but made me wonder: has anyone ever seen a female name, incorporating "Seth"?
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I've never seen a woman's name that incorporated Seth.
But Seth's wife was Neith, and it may be more logical to look for the incorporation of Neith in women's names. She's represented often enough. (Meryneith for example)
Neith is also associated with war and strife I think.
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Segereh
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question

To be honest, I've never seen Neith as Seth's wife before. Confused
Work has gotten to u, annie, don't u mean Nephthys? Think
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isisinacrisis
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's what I thought. Nepthys is Set's wife, but I've also seen astarte given as his second wife or concubine.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Embarassed Yes brain has left the building (without me).
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anneke
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was looking at the names of the Queens in the first few dynsaties:

Neith related names: Neith-hetepu, Herneith, Merneith

Two interesting names are: Betirset and Tarset. (wives of 1st dyn king Anedjib) I don't know if they are Seth-names, or if the "set" part of their name comes from something else.

Hapny-maat (end dyn 2)

Then there's a Neith in the 6th dynasty.

There are lots of Queens who have names that do not seem to relate to any gods or godesses. Khentkaues, Meresanch, Henutsen, Hetepheres, Neferu, Weret-Imtes, etc. (Unless these are deities I don't recognize)

In the 11th dynasty there is a Queen Amunet (maybe 2)

Then in the 12th dynasty there are all of a sudden several Queens and Princesses whose names relate to gods and goddesses.
Change in theology???? Or just change in naming practice??
Nefery-tatenen
Sobek-neferu
Sit-Hathor
Sit-Hathor-Meret
Sit-Hathor-Yunet
Merserger
Hetep-Hathor etc.

In the 18th dynasty there are several women named after Amon, Aten, Yah, Mut, Re etc.
Besides names referring to beauty? (Nefertari, Nefertiti)
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Hathorhotep
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tarset was wife of Anedjib or? See this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Queen_Tarset
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cannot find any literature that supports the existence of someone called Tarset. Not sure where I got the Tarset from in 2004 Very Happy
Maybe one of those websites with lists of names.

Some websites are better researched than others.

If there is a real article of book that mentions Tarset I would be interested in seeing the reference.

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