Go to the Egyptian Dreams shop
Egyptian Dreams
Ancient Egypt Discussion Board
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Osiris making Anubis seems useless?
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Mummification
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ShenAnkh
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 17 May 2010
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 12:14 pm    Post subject: Osiris making Anubis seems useless? Reply with quote

Rejuvination yeah? it's Osiris. So why preserve your body/soul if Osiris can make you new or young again? Why would you need Anubis to preserve you if Osiris can grant you rejuvination? seems controdictory to me, even though this is not arguing the facts of mummification, I am just arguing 'Gods' for simple debate. I know/believe they had preserved the corpse to allow journey in the afterlife last longer, thinking if the body rotts that their soul/spirit will perish... but why do psychic people see ghosts of people who where incinirated? how can ancient spirits exist if their bodies don't even still lay on the earth?... did Egyptian's really think as hard about the afterlife as they claim? or did translation miss small facts that dreams and death where the same thing to Egyptians?
_________________
Send my Ashes to the Two-Lands.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Osiris II
Vizier
Vizier


Joined: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 1752

PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anpu in Egyptian also
In(e)pu, Imeut

Anubis (Greek) was the old caretaker of the ce- meteries. From circa dy- nasty five he was con- sidered to be the son of the solar god Re.
Later he was also con- nected to the vast Osiris cult as his son with the goddess Nephtys.
(See the Myth of Osiris). He was depicted as a jackal or a man with a jackal's head and was originally a local god from Abydos in Upper Egypt. He guided the deceased to the next life via the Court of Osiris in the Underworld. Embalming of the dead was a main task of his (without "competition" from other gods) and he was the subject of the mortuary prayers in funerals. His fame was constantly on top du- ring all periods of the long Egyptian history.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ranoferhotep
Vizier
Vizier


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 1197
Location: Ghent (Gent - Belgium)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
did Egyptian's really think as hard about the afterlife as they claim? or did translation miss small facts that dreams and death where the same thing to Egyptians?


Interesting question. My first answer would be “yes” if we see which great efforts they made in building pyramids, mastaba’s and rock cut tombs. But those tombs were for royalty, nobles and the wealthy.
But I ask myself the question, how the poorer people, e.g. farmers, thought about a life after death? Those who didn’t have the means to afford mummification and a rock cut tomb.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Toth
Account Suspended


Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1781
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ranoferhotep wrote:
Quote:
did Egyptian's really think as hard about the afterlife as they claim? or did translation miss small facts that dreams and death where the same thing to Egyptians?


Interesting question. My first answer would be “yes” if we see which great efforts they made in building pyramids, mastaba’s and rock cut tombs. But those tombs were for royalty, nobles and the wealthy.
But I ask myself the question, how the poorer people, e.g. farmers, thought about a life after death? Those who didn’t have the means to afford mummification and a rock cut tomb.


they "borrowed" a sarcophagus and a tomb?
_________________
[img]http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/8fc1c47be2.png[/img]
[i][b][color=#0080FF]Toth[/color][/b][/i]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ranoferhotep
Vizier
Vizier


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 1197
Location: Ghent (Gent - Belgium)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
they "borrowed" a sarcophagus and a tomb?


Could have happened, I believe there are some cases known off reusing coffins and tombs even tomb furniture. Wouldn’t call it “borrowing” however. Can’t find directly a good (private) example. In Tutankhamen’s tomb there is clear evidence that some of the artifacts where clearly not made for him. E.g., some sjabtis, the mummy formed coffins they found in the canope chest.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Toth
Account Suspended


Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1781
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ranoferhotep wrote:
Quote:
they "borrowed" a sarcophagus and a tomb?


Could have happened, I believe there are some cases known off reusing coffins and tombs even tomb furniture. Wouldn’t call it “borrowing” however. Can’t find directly a good (private) example. In Tutankhamen’s tomb there is clear evidence that some of the artifacts where clearly not made for him. E.g., some sjabtis, the mummy formed coffins they found in the canope chest.


Ranoferhotep,
The former I had read about, the latter (mummy in canope chest not however, do you have a link? Idea
_________________
[img]http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/8fc1c47be2.png[/img]
[i][b][color=#0080FF]Toth[/color][/b][/i]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ranoferhotep
Vizier
Vizier


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 1197
Location: Ghent (Gent - Belgium)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The former I had read about, the latter (mummy in canope chest not however, do you have a link?


I'm sorry Thoth, I have no direct Internet link, I’ts information I have from one of my 5 books about Tutankhamen. And to be honest I don’t know exactly from which book I retrieved the information. But I’m currently re-reading them. If I come across the article I wil gladly post it. Some of my books however are in English, some in Dutch, my native language.

I’m studying Egyptology for about 28 years now, as an hobby, and read in all those years quite a lot. Some information stays, other things I don’t remember, like where I read somewhere.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Toth
Account Suspended


Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1781
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ranoferhotep wrote:
Quote:
The former I had read about, the latter (mummy in canope chest not however, do you have a link?


I'm sorry Thoth, I have no direct Internet link, I’ts information I have from one of my 5 books about Tutankhamen. And to be honest I don’t know exactly from which book I retrieved the information. But I’m currently re-reading them. If I come across the article I wil gladly post it. Some of my books however are in English, some in Dutch, my native language.

I’m studying Egyptology for about 28 years now, as an hobby, and read in all those years quite a lot. Some information stays, other things I don’t remember, like where I read somewhere.


Goedenavond, Ranoferhotep;

Het schijnt dat er veel Nederlanders en/of Belgen interesse hebben voor AE, in het Engels maar weer, voor de voortgang:

I think I have seen similar sentiments somewhere, however why try to rejuvenate, revive something, if the most important parts (ba and Ka) are gone? What would you rejuvenate / revive in such a case? That would be like an attempt to rejuvenate / revive something who's heart has failed testing by Anubis and who's soul was consumed by Ammit.

I just started Egyptology, but I find it an interesting hobby! And in the process I mwtr some really nice and friendly people here!
_________________
[img]http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/8fc1c47be2.png[/img]
[i][b][color=#0080FF]Toth[/color][/b][/i]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
neseret
Vizier
Vizier


Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ranoferhotep wrote:
Quote:
they "borrowed" a sarcophagus and a tomb?


Could have happened, I believe there are some cases known off reusing coffins and tombs even tomb furniture. Wouldn’t call it “borrowing” however.


It's called "intrusive interment," and it does occur throughout pharaonic history. This is where less-endowed (wealth wise) individuals often "partake" of the "good afterlife" of a wealthier soul by burying his/her body within (or nearby) the wealthier/royal person's tomb.

You can check out the number and type of "intrusive burials" in ancient Egypt, by reviewing this Google search on the topic.
_________________
Katherine Griffis-Greenberg

Doctoral Candidate
Oriental Institute
Oriental Studies
Doctoral Programme [Egyptology]
Oxford University
Oxford, United Kingdom

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Toth
Account Suspended


Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1781
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

neseret wrote:
Ranoferhotep wrote:
Quote:
they "borrowed" a sarcophagus and a tomb?


Could have happened, I believe there are some cases known off reusing coffins and tombs even tomb furniture. Wouldn’t call it “borrowing” however.


It's called "intrusive interment," and it does occur throughout pharaonic history. This is where less-endowed (wealth wise) individuals often "partake" of the "good afterlife" of a wealthier soul by burying his/her body within (or nearby) the wealthier/royal person's tomb.

You can check out the number and type of "intrusive burials" in ancient Egypt, by reviewing this Google search on the topic.

Neseret, Katherine,

I am amazed by the sheer amount of knowledge some people (amongst which you, and please consider this a huge compliment) have. May I be so indiscreet and ask you how long you are involved in Egyptology? Idea
_________________
[img]http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/8fc1c47be2.png[/img]
[i][b][color=#0080FF]Toth[/color][/b][/i]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
neseret
Vizier
Vizier


Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 1029
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toth wrote:

I am amazed by the sheer amount of knowledge some people (amongst which you, and please consider this a huge compliment) have. May I be so indiscreet and ask you how long you are involved in Egyptology? Idea


Hmm: how to put this? Long enough to have taught at a university in the subject since 1979 (based on broad-based training and knowledge), and have now attained a MA in Egyptian Archaeology (Distinction) and am working on a D. Phil. in Egyptology at Oxford.

My interest started at 12, and has never let up: Does that give you any idea? Wink
_________________
Katherine Griffis-Greenberg

Doctoral Candidate
Oriental Institute
Oriental Studies
Doctoral Programme [Egyptology]
Oxford University
Oxford, United Kingdom

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Toth
Account Suspended


Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1781
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

neseret wrote:
Toth wrote:

I am amazed by the sheer amount of knowledge some people (amongst which you, and please consider this a huge compliment) have. May I be so indiscreet and ask you how long you are involved in Egyptology? Idea


Hmm: how to put this? Long enough to have taught at a university in the subject since 1979 (based on broad-based training and knowledge), and have now attained a MA in Egyptian Archaeology (Distinction) and am working on a D. Phil. in Egyptology at Oxford.

My interest started at 12, and has never let up: Does that give you any idea? Wink


Yes, That I have a very long road to follow to get even close, while at the same time stay up-to-date sounds like quite a task, but if I will have the time left, I will try...
_________________
[img]http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/8fc1c47be2.png[/img]
[i][b][color=#0080FF]Toth[/color][/b][/i]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ranoferhotep
Vizier
Vizier


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 1197
Location: Ghent (Gent - Belgium)

PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the information neseret, this makes forum’s like this one so interesting.

Here we find people who have interest in Egyptology, off wich some study it as an hobby, like me, but also people who study it on professional basis and share their knowledge with the other members.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Toth
Account Suspended


Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1781
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2010 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW: Did anyone execute Neseret's Google search? The original link adds up to 334, replace Egypt with "kemet" and an additional 4 are found, so the grand total stops at 338, that is what has been found so far...

Richard, aka
_________________
[img]http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/8fc1c47be2.png[/img]
[i][b][color=#0080FF]Toth[/color][/b][/i]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ma'a-mu-khr'w
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 13 Nov 2010
Posts: 20
Location: Cabo San Lucas

PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Em-Hotep-Rh'ekh,

There is a common assumption/belief (I have come to find) amongst many followers of the Modern Kemetic Faith, that cremation is 'ok' because you still have a body on earth; it's just ash. I personally do not agree with this statement or belief; especially if you are going to call yourself Kemetic.

I understand that this forum is not a religious one; though I am a 'Child of Netjer' so I apologize in advance if this post becomes a bit bias towards the ancient religious views. The body needed to be preserved. This was the cornerstone of the ancient Egyptian belief for the afterlife. If you did not have a body on earth, your soul would have no home on earth; thus it could not receive offerings (either physical or magical) and thus the soul would 'perish'; suffering a fate the Egyptian called 'Second-Death.'

Anubis was the guardian of the dead; and yes, he was the embalmer. This belief arose from the famous myth in which it is Anubis who embalms his father Osiris in Linen to keep his dismembered body together which Isis had re-built. It was truth not the act of the mummification which brought Osiris back to life, it was the 'Breath of Life' which Isis breathed into his corpse after death. This 'Breath of Life' 'rejuvenated' Osiris. (One must also understand how the Egyptians used the word 'rejuvenate.' They used it a lot, and not just in a context of death. In many beautiful hymns to Ra does it say "...May your brilliant rays rejuvenate my skin every day..." This word did not necessarily mean what is does to us as it did to them. The word did not always mean to 'make young,' it was conceived as meaning to 'bring to life'

Osiris could not exist as he does without Anubis (Inpu) and vis-versa Inpu could not exist without Usir (Osiris). In reality, each Netjer (or God) could not exist without the other; each of them complete each other. Just as we cannot live with only a heart, the Netjeru cannot exist with only one.

Also, it is very true that many people would not have been buried in such finely crafted tombs of stone or mud-brick. Many peasant desired to be buried near to the wealthy as if to 'hitch a ride' to the afterlife through the portal of their tomb. Many of the poor could not even afford mummification, and thus their bodies were left to be mummified by nature... as the tradition began. Either way; either through mummification or the desert, a person's body was preserved' the most important aspect of attaining existence in the Field of Reeds.

Senabty
_________________
Ne'sip - Thii - Mu - Pah - Ma'at
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Mummification All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group