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Horemheb
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Robson
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
I'm going to prove something I do not even believe in to begin with?


IDEM
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Toth
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robson wrote:
anneke wrote:
I'm going to prove something I do not even believe in to begin with?


IDEM


I already apologized people, give me a break... please Idea
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anneke
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL Hey Thoth I have a math problem for ye ....
(would this be a good time to torture you a bit? )

Oh, all right, I will be nice (goes against my nature you know!)
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Toth
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
LOL Hey Thoth I have a math problem for ye ....
(would this be a good time to torture you a bit? )

Oh, all right, I will be nice (goes against my nature you know!)


Hi Anneke, It is never a good time to torture me

Are you willing to take the chance that I will say "I don't know" that would leave you with your problem and me "off the hook" Laughing

You really know how to hide your nature then Wink

Richard, aka
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anneke
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy Back to discussing Horemheb it is then ....

He IS an interesting character. Imagine that after serving many years in the army and working as a kind of diplomat, you end up taking the throne and in the process have to "get with the program" and declare yourself god's chosen one. And just to make sure make yourself - if not a deity - something close to it. Boggles the mind.

Quote:

You really know how to hide your nature then

Smile Thanks. I try ...
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Toth
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
Very Happy Back to discussing Horemheb it is then ....

He IS an interesting character. Imagine that after serving many years in the army and working as a kind of diplomat, you end up taking the throne and in the process have to "get with the program" and declare yourself god's chosen one. And just to make sure make yourself - if not a deity - something close to it. Boggles the mind.

Quote:

You really know how to hide your nature then

Smile Thanks. I try ...


What happened to him, has he been found (or it that the puzzle to be solved by math?)

I am amazed that everyone accepted this when it happened, no one had question, was against it?

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anneke
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toth wrote:


What happened to him, has he been found

You mean his mummy? To my knowledge his mummy has never been located. There were mummies in his tomb in the VoK but those were intrusive I think.

Toth wrote:

I am amazed that everyone accepted this when it happened, no one had question, was against it?


I wonder if there was an internal struggle. Nothing to the point of a civil war it seems. After he took over from Aye he just seems to have "gone on with it". The coronation inscriptions have made me wonder if the internal situation was fairly bad and they were just happy to see a strong leader take over?

Looks more like a bloodless coup from across the millenia.
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Toth
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:
Toth wrote:


What happened to him, has he been found

You mean his mummy? To my knowledge his mummy has never been located. There were mummies in his tomb in the VoK but those were intrusive I think.

Toth wrote:

I am amazed that everyone accepted this when it happened, no one had question, was against it?


I wonder if there was an internal struggle. Nothing to the point of a civil war it seems. After he took over from Aye he just seems to have "gone on with it". The coronation inscriptions have made me wonder if the internal situation was fairly bad and they were just happy to see a strong leader take over?

Looks more like a bloodless coup from across the millenia.


Of course we must not forget those burnt an destroyed (by robbers) mummies, they are gone forever, that could have happened to Horemheb too.

Are there indications of internal struggles up to a point that such a strong leader would be required?

Richard, aka
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Robson
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anneke wrote:

I wonder if there was an internal struggle. Nothing to the point of a civil war it seems. After he took over from Aye he just seems to have "gone on with it". The coronation inscriptions have made me wonder if the internal situation was fairly bad and they were just happy to see a strong leader take over?

Looks more like a bloodless coup from across the millenia.


Maybe some court quarrelings, half dozen of strategic murders and that's all. No people shouting and shooting across the country and, suddenly, 'habemus faraonem'.
And the weaker party simply accepted the new regime in order to keep their old privileges.
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Toth
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robson wrote:
anneke wrote:

I wonder if there was an internal struggle. Nothing to the point of a civil war it seems. After he took over from Aye he just seems to have "gone on with it". The coronation inscriptions have made me wonder if the internal situation was fairly bad and they were just happy to see a strong leader take over?

Looks more like a bloodless coup from across the millenia.


Maybe some court quarrelings, half dozen of strategic murders and that's all. No people shouting and shooting across the country and, suddenly, 'habemus faraonem'.
And the weaker party simply accepted the new regime in order to keep their old privileges.


Did they have white smoke back then, at the point of 'habemus faraonem'?

Richard
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Robson
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe they released a bennu bird Laughing
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Ranoferhotep
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robson wrote:

Quote:
Maybe some court quarrelings, half dozen of strategic murders and that's all. No people shouting and shooting across the country and, suddenly, 'habemus faraonem'.
And the weaker party simply accepted the new regime in order to keep their old privileges.


I think you have a good point there Robson. Didnít Horemheb issued a document (stele) were he states that the land was full of corruption, especially within the government? I believe especially tax collectors were replaced, the corrupt ones banished to the SinaÔ, after cutting off their noses.
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Sothis
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ranoferhotep wrote:
Robson wrote:

Quote:
Maybe some court quarrelings, half dozen of strategic murders and that's all. No people shouting and shooting across the country and, suddenly, 'habemus faraonem'.
And the weaker party simply accepted the new regime in order to keep their old privileges.


I think you have a good point there Robson. Didnít Horemheb issued a document (stele) were he states that the land was full of corruption, especially within the government? I believe especially tax collectors were replaced, the corrupt ones banished to the SinaÔ, after cutting off their noses.


The problem is that with those self-made proclamations one has to be careful because the description might well be much worse than the reality was to make the king`s achievements look even greater. But to some extent it is certainly true that there were lots of issues with corruption.

Horemheb sure tried his best to deal with it but AFAIK there is no other source to show how successful he really was.
After all corruption is an issue which was probably always there and still can be found across the whole world and especially in Near Eastern/Asian countries.
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Toth
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sothis wrote:
Ranoferhotep wrote:
Robson wrote:

Quote:
Maybe some court quarrelings, half dozen of strategic murders and that's all. No people shouting and shooting across the country and, suddenly, 'habemus faraonem'.
And the weaker party simply accepted the new regime in order to keep their old privileges.


I think you have a good point there Robson. Didn’t Horemheb issued a document (stele) were he states that the land was full of corruption, especially within the government? I believe especially tax collectors were replaced, the corrupt ones banished to the SinaÔ, after cutting off their noses.


The problem is that with those self-made proclamations one has to be careful because the description might well be much worse than the reality was to make the king`s achievements look even greater. But to some extent it is certainly true that there were lots of issues with corruption.

Horemheb sure tried his best to deal with it but AFAIK there is no other source to show how successful he really was.

I think Ramesses II Egyptian report on the battle at Qadesh could serve as an example here: There was no Egyptian victory there, yet it was presented as one.

Richard, aka
After all corruption is an issue which was probably always there and still can be found across the whole world and especially in Near Eastern/Asian countries.

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Ranoferhotep
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sothis has a point also. But at least he tried. And probably was in a way successful. As in reorganizing the army, something he started already under the reign of Ay (or even sooner). Letís say he evened the path for his successors, Ramses I, reigned too short to pick the fruits of his efforts, but Sethi I and Ramses II, surely could profit from what Horemheb started.
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