Go to the Egyptian Dreams shop
Egyptian Dreams
Ancient Egypt Discussion Board
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Using DNA to determine the identity of the KV55 mummy

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Evidence from Amarna
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Gregory R. Johnson
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 8:17 am    Post subject: Using DNA to determine the identity of the KV55 mummy Reply with quote

As I understand the recent DNA study of the Amarna royal family:

We are certain of the identities of the following mummies:
1. Yuya and Thuya
2. Tutankhamen
3. Amenhotep III

Based on the genetic analysis of these mummies, we have been able to establish the identities of the following mummies:
1. The "Elder Lady" is Queen Tiye, daughter of Yuya and Thuya and grandmother of Tut.
2. The KV55 mummy is the son of Amenhotep III and the Elder Lady/Tiye and the father of Tut.
3. The Younger Lady is the daughter of Amenhotep III and Tiye, the sister of KV55, and the mother of Tut.

Somewhat more questionably:
4. The fetuses from the tomb of Tut are his daughters.
5. The headless mummy KV21-A is the mother of the fetuses from the tomb of Tut and thus is Ankhesenamen.

What the study does not establish is the identity of the KV55 mummy: he could be Akhenaton or his brother Smenkhkare.

I wish to suggest a way to settle this issue.

Nobody can seriously doubt the Ankhesenamen is the daughter of Akhenaton and Nefertiti.

Thus, if the fetuses are indeed Tut's children, and KV21-A is Queen Ankhesenamen, then we can determine the identity of KV55 if it is genetically possible to determine whether KV21-A/Ankhesenamun is the daughter or merely the niece of KV55.

Moreover, if it is possible to determine if the KV21-A mummy is the daughter of the Younger Lady, that would settle the question of whether she is Nefertiti and also establish that Nefertiti was the full sister of Akhenaton.

I would be very interested to know if these determinations are genetically possible or if I am barking up the wrong tree.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kylejustin
Vizier
Vizier


Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 1231
Location: victoria, australia

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the mummy from kv21 is plausibly ankhsenamun, they could not extract enough dna from the mummies in kv21 to prove conclusively that she was the mother of the babies, just that she fits as their mother. she may not be ankhsenamun, tut had numerous wives, any could have borne him children.
_________________
heaven won't take me.......hell's afraid i'll take over.....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sothis
Priest
Priest


Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 659

PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, given the DNA-data is correct (what we have to assume) then KV21A cannot be the daughter of KV55.
The marker D18S51 shows 16,19 for KV55 and 10,(?) for 21A.
The marker D21S11 shows 29,34 for KV55 and 35,(?) for 21A

So due to these two markers she cannot be his daughter. But given the fragmentary data and the close consanguinity of this family one cannot say if she definitely was his niece (possible!) or not.

Due to the same markers 21A cannot be the Younger Lady`s daughter either, because D18S51 is 16,19 for YL (just like KV55) and her D21S11 is 25,29.This does not fit with 21A`s 35 and 10.

By the way, KV21B is not excluded to be KV55`s daughter but she cannot be both KV55`s and YL`s daughter due to
marker D2S1338: KV55 +YL both are 16,26 where 21B is 17,26.

But one must keep in mind that 21B`s data is even more fragmentary than 21A`s.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Austendw
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Posts: 34
Location: London

PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sothis wrote:
No, given the DNA-data is correct (what we have to assume) then KV21A cannot be the daughter of KV55.
The marker D18S51 shows 16,19 for KV55 and 10,(?) for 21A.
The marker D21S11 shows 29,34 for KV55 and 35,(?) for 21A

So due to these two markers she cannot be his daughter.


Are you sure about this???

If at D18S51 the blank for KV21A turned out to be 16 or 19, and if at D21S11 the blank was 29 or 34 then she could indeed be KV55s daughter. Similarly, there's nothing that proves KV21A can't be a daughter of KV35YL, since at D18S51, KV21A's blank could be 16 or 19, and at D21S11 the blank could be 25 or 29.

What she can't be is a daughter of both of them.
_________________
Call me Ishmael
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sothis
Priest
Priest


Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 659

PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You`re right that the blanks could be filled with one of KV55`s alleles.
I don`t know where I had my head to make such a stupid mistake Embarassed
Sorry!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Austendw
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Posts: 34
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sothis wrote:
I don`t know where I had my head to make such a stupid mistake Embarassed
Sorry!

We all do it! It's easy for ones thinking to get twisted up by stuff like this. I have scraps of paper with numbers and arrows and lines and question marks and all sorts all over my desk! Can't make head or tail of 'em now.
_________________
Call me Ishmael
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Austendw
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Posts: 34
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sothis wrote:
I don`t know where I had my head to make such a stupid mistake Embarassed
Sorry!

We all do it! It's easy for ones thinking to get twisted up by stuff like this. I have scraps of paper with numbers and arrows and lines and question marks and all sorts all over my desk! Can't make head or tail of 'em now.
_________________
Call me Ishmael
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Evidence from Amarna All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group