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Yuya, "Father of the Living God"

 
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Raia
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 8:39 pm    Post subject: Yuya, "Father of the Living God" Reply with quote

While looking for books, I found one called "The Hebrew Pharaohs of Egypt", or a title similar to that. It's about Yuya, who is the only person in all of ancient Egypt to have the title "Father of the living God", in reference to Amenhotep III. Yuya was even burried in the Valley of the Kings, even though he was not royal. So a new theory states that Yuya was the biblical Joseph who came to Egypt. Has anyone else heard of this theory, or of Yuya?
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Raia
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, I made a BIG mistake...it's Tuthmosis IV, not Amehotep III, and the title he was given was "a father to Pharaoh." I don't know where I came up with Amehotep III... Embarassed
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anneke
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yuya and Tuya were the parents of Queen Tiye. And hence the inlaws of Amenhotep III.
They were indeed buried in the Valley of the Kings (KV 46).

Yuya and Tuya were also the parents of Anen (second prophet of Amon), and some think they may have been the parents of Aye as well.
There's even a theory that makes Yuya the grand-father of Nefertiti.

For info on Yuya and Tuya see:

http://forum.egyptiandreams.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=185
(this is a thread about Tuya, but her husband is discussed as well)

They make a lot of this title "father of the god", and I have actually seen it sued for other people as well. I think personally it meant something like tutor.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two very decent (related) pages on Yuya u can find here:
Page one.
Page two.

They're translated from Spanish, so excuse the language. Smile
Whenever they say "Yours" they mean Yuya's wife Tuya.

His name and descendance have been mentioned and discussed in several threads here, the most illuminating will probably be the thread on the Akhmim family: http://forum.egyptiandreams.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=136&start=0. My main view on the case is that you have two facts here: Yuya seems to be of a semitic descendancy and rose to high office. Those are pretty much the only things to go on for making him the biblical Josef. Maybe the name is a reason for the theory as well, but I consider it to be not much more than a lucky coincidence. There are enough important Egyptians, still buried or forever gone. It would surprise me not more of them would've been from semitic decent and with a high function. So I guess making him Josef is most of all a case of stating what is known about Yuya and then "pasting" the bible on to this story. Not a definitely decent way of doing research, but it can sure give nice results.

Anneke will probably have beaten me to it by now... no?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What can I say? Psychic.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is also related to the family from Akhmin
http://forum.egyptiandreams.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=136
(this was discussed a while ago, and drifted off to page 2 of Pharaohs and Queens Very Happy )

This family to which Yuya belonged is quite interesting. There seem to be quite a few connections to the royal family.
Some of the men held the title "master of the horse" as well. This is why we were wondering about the fact that the Mitanni were such excellent horse men. Yuya is often thought to be of an immigrant family.
His association with horses may point in the direction of Mitanni (but that's speculative).

You've actually hit on one of my favorite topics Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is from touregypt:
Quote:
Yuia was an official during the 18th Dynasty in the courts of both Tuthmosis IV and Amenhotep III. He fathered Queen Tiy, the wife of Amenhotep III, and he was also Master of Horse, a title which carried the name "Father of the God". Yuia served as chancellor of the North and as a priest of both Hermonthis and Amon during his career. His wife, Tuia, was of Egyptian descent. His mummified remains indicate that he was of Indo-European stock, probably Hurrian. This particular ethnic group served, generally, in the cavalry units of the Egyptians.


His name was written in 11 different ways in his tomb (and has been written several different ways in english as well). This is partially what has lead to the speculation that he was a foreigner.
His mummy is very well preserved, and looks foreign as well.


i can't find a good frontal picture of his face.

This is his egyptian wife Tuya

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Segereh wrote:
What can I say? Psychic.


LOL It's that vulcan mimd-meld again...
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



(Had to hurry) - The site itself is http://www.acacialand.com/.
It mostly concerns the Josef-theory: nice to read, but keep in mind it's only a theory.
I always have some scepsis about using the bible as a history manual.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The main evidence they had connecting Yuya to Joseph is that according to the biblical story, when Joseph came to Egypt he said he was "a father to Pharaoh". Since Egyptologists say(although now I guess it's not true)no one else was given that rank, Yuya must be Joseph. They also say the mummy of Yuya was foreign to Egypt, like Joseph. I wonder where the author got the idea that no one else was given this rank...
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who gives bread to him who has none...
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though the servant offends him, he is merciful
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anneke
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aperel, who was a Vizier and buried in Saqqara was apparently Semitic. So the presence of foreigners at court or in high circles was not really that rare of an ocurrence.
Not that "every other" courtier was foreign Very Happy , but there were people like that around.

I don't know why people made the claim that no one else had this title btw. Well, except that it makes for a better story Cool

There is some speculation that Tuya, his wife, was a grand-daughter of Amenhotep II. A "product" from the royal harem by probably some minor wife. (Can't remember why they postulated that)
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was looking around for other people with the title "father of the god" (It-Netjer).

Both Yuya and Aye held that title.

There are other versions of the title:
For instance Hapuseneb, from the time of Hatshepsut was named
first father of the God Amun (jt-nTr tpj n Imn )

This is the reason I think the title has something to do with a religious function. Not the literal "father in law" to the pharaoh.


http://www.maat-ka-ra.de/english/personen/hapuseneb/hapuseneb.htm
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