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Childless Gods
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freeTinker
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:14 pm    Post subject: Childless Gods Reply with quote

Does someone know which of the gods are known for being childless? - I recognize Thoth and Ma'at in this respect (I think), but which others, mythologically or pseudo-historically are recognized as having (definitively) no offspring?

thx
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Freetinker,

I believe Wepwawet may be one for the list. I cannot recall either a wife, or children.

This is unlike Anubis (Wepwawet is sometimes mistaken for Anubis) who had a wife and daughter.

Stuart
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, Montu may be another.

I will stop here as i am in way over my head- going on memory!

Thanks
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Ranoferhotep
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a lot more, we must take into account that most triads (father, mother, son or daughter) were formed by the priesthood.
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Hathorhotep
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seshat with her nephew Toth had a son called Golden Horus (Hor).
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Hathorhotep
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anubis had a wife Anput and a daughter of her, Kebechet.
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neseret
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Offically speaking Horus does not have children: the "children of Horus" are genii who protect the organs of a person, but they are not really children borne him by a consort.

Neith is a parthenogenic creatrix: she creates the world and universe without a consort. Later, she is fused with Sobek as her son, but that's merely a local tradition.

Bast, as I recall, does not have a consort, ands there's some confusion whether Mahes/Mihos is a son, or a localised consort or son.

That's all I can think of from the top of my head. Perhaps more will occur later.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bast has a consort - Ptah.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote]Offically speaking Horus does not have children: the "children of Horus" are genii who protect the organs of a person, but they are not really children borne him by a consort. [/quote]

This god was Hornub, the golden Horus. And sons of Horus are sons of Horus the Elder and not the Horus Younger.
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neseret
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hathorhotep wrote:
Bast has a consort - Ptah.


No, that's Sekhmet. Bast has no consort, but often is conflated with Mihos as her son, and on occasion, with Horus and Nefertum (Sekhmet's son with Ptah) as her sons (these associations are much later, in the Late Period, when syncretism was rampant).

Hathorhotep wrote:
This god was Hornub, the golden Horus. And sons of Horus are sons of Horus the Elder and not the Horus Younger.


First of all, get your facts straight:

a) 'Horus the Younger' is not a deity or epithet for a deity. It is not an Egyptian term for Horus at any time.

The closest you can come to this term is /Hr pA-xrd/ which means "Horus the child", and which the Greeks rendered as Harpocrates. This is a form of Horus as a child on the knee of his mother Isis who nurses him (which eventually stands as the modern emblem of Madonna and Child).

b) The two deities to which you refer are Haroeris (Horus the Elder) and Hariese (Horus, son of Isis and Osiris).

There are two different traditions indicated: Horus the Elder was first considered the brother of Sutekh (Seth) and their struggle for the rule of the land of Egypt becomes conflated with the later tradition of Hariese (Horus son of Isis and Osiris) in which Horus battles against his uncle Sutekh and then has the matter decided before the divine tribunal.

The divine tribunal eventually rules in Horus' favour (thus making Horus /Hr-nD-it.f/, "Horus, saviour of his father", and who succeeded his father by first burying him as /Hr iwn-mwt.f/, "Horus, pillar of his mother (Isis)" and ascending the throne as /Hr-nD-it.f m wTst-Hr/, "Horus saviour of his father, [who resides] on the Throne of Horus" (Leitz 2002, V: 269-270). This set of traditions probably didn't emerge until Dynasty 6 or later.

c) There is no /Hr-nbw/ epithet attached to Horus until the Greco-Roman period, and is only used as a ritual designation for certain forms of Horus (as in son of Isis and Osiris, and Horus the king):

1: Horus Behdety (Horus of Edfu)
2: Horus Ma'aty ('the true and proper Horus') (Leitz 2002, V: 264)

d). I stand by my statement that the Sons of Horus are not borne to Horus by a consort, but rather (according to the Pyramid Texts), they are his "children" only insofar as they are aspects of his soul (in some sections of the Pyramid Texts these genii are called Horus' "souls" (/bA.w/) (see on this, Hart 1986: 204-205).

Again, I definitely urge you to read more than whatever it is you are reading now: you seem woefully out of step with easily acquirable knowledge about ancient Egyptian deities.

Reference:

Bonnet, H. 2001 (1952). Reallexikon der Aegyptischen Religiongeschichte. Berlin: Walter de Gruyter.

Hart, G. 1986. A Dictionary of Egyptian Gods and Goddesses. London: Routledge/Kegan Paul.

Leitz, C., Ed. 2002. Lexikon der ägyptischen Götter und Götterbezeichungen. (8 Vols.) Orientalia Lovaniensia Analecta 113-129. Leuven: Peeters.
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Hathorhotep
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you are maybe confused. I said that Sešat and Toth had a son Hornub (golden Horus). This god had no any realtions to real Horus, except his name.

And sons of Horus are sons of Geb's son Horus, not Isis' son. It seems that relations beetwen Jesus and Horus are very interesting.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hathorhotep wrote:
To Neseret : I think you are maybe confused. ...

This one was good ... ! Laughing Laughing Laughing

Lutz
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Hathorhotep
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, she is!
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hathorhotep wrote:
Yes, she is!


I still wonder who "is confused", but Neseret is not one of the candidates, Hathorhotep is a candidate though

Richard
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Hathorhotep
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, neseret is confused! Laughing
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