Go to the Egyptian Dreams shop
Egyptian Dreams
Ancient Egypt Discussion Board
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Queen Tiye
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
 
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Pharaohs and Queens
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Neryli
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 08 Nov 2010
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:30 pm    Post subject: Queen Tiye Reply with quote

In my five years of research for personal reasons, I have never come across a book dedicated to arguably the most influential women of the so-called Eighteenth Dynasty. Her small biography appears on a few zealous ancient Egyptian websites as some sort of intermediary between Amenhotep III and Akhenaten. Her marriage to one of the most prosperous pharoahs of the New Kingdom and her birth to the so-called 'Heretic King' leaves her qualities in the shadows.

Though records differ, a few historians agree with the following information that she:

1) Married Amenhotep III
2) Mother of Akhenaten
3) Progenitor of monotheism (which possibly inspired Judaism, Christianity, Islam )
4) Held official status in court affairs
5) Gave birth to five or six children
6) Was of non-royal birth (possibly coming from a noble family)
7) Had temples and a lake built in her name

And the list goes on...

Like so many of these queens, she is overshadowed by Nefertiti's bust, Cleopatra's melodramatic events, and to a lesser extent Hatshepsut's self-proclaimed pharoah rule.

Are there any books on Queen Tiye? And I mean books specifically focusing on her (her name as the title would be helpful Smile ).

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Toth
Account Suspended


Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1781
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Neryli

I did a quick search on Amazon.com, and found several books in which Queen Tiye played a role, but none which could be seen as her biography; but I am sure one of the other members will know a title to look for.

I "abuse" the circumstance though to welcome you as the newest member to Egyptian Dreams (ED) Applause, so: Welcome!!
_________________
[img]http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/8fc1c47be2.png[/img]
[i][b][color=#0080FF]Toth[/color][/b][/i]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kylejustin
Vizier
Vizier


Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 1231
Location: victoria, australia

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

she had at least 8 daughters by amenhotep III, and 2 sons, possibly many more children.
_________________
heaven won't take me.......hell's afraid i'll take over.....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anneke
Queen of Egypt
Queen of Egypt


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 9305

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have never seen a book about Queen Tiye. She is usually mentioned in books about the other characters as mentioned above and is invariably portrayed as a supporting character.

Re # children: I know of Tuthmose, Amenhotep (=Akhenaten) and the princesses Sitamun, Isis, Henuttaneb, Nebetiah and maybe Beketaten.
I don't think any others have been attributed to her.

She is prominently featured in the heb sed scenes, we know of at least two of her personal stewards (Kheruef and Huya). We know she had her own temple in Sedeinga, Nubia.

She is depicted equal size to her illustrious husband in a family statue from the mortuary temple of Amenhotep III (now in the Cairo Museum).

She had her won sunshade temple in Amarna.

It really would be nice to have a biography of this queen at some point. Smile
_________________
Math and Art: http://mathematicsaroundus.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Styler78
Priest
Priest


Joined: 05 Oct 2009
Posts: 974
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Queen Tiye Reply with quote

Neryli wrote:
In my five years of research for personal reasons, I have never come across a book dedicated to arguably the most influential women of the so-called Eighteenth Dynasty. Her small biography appears on a few zealous ancient Egyptian websites as some sort of intermediary between Amenhotep III and Akhenaten. Her marriage to one of the most prosperous pharoahs of the New Kingdom and her birth to the so-called 'Heretic King' leaves her qualities in the shadows.

Though records differ, a few historians agree with the following information that she:

1) Married Amenhotep III
2) Mother of Akhenaten
3) Progenitor of monotheism (which possibly inspired Judaism, Christianity, Islam )
4) Held official status in court affairs
5) Gave birth to five or six children
6) Was of non-royal birth (possibly coming from a noble family)
7) Had temples and a lake built in her name

And the list goes on...

Like so many of these queens, she is overshadowed by Nefertiti's bust, Cleopatra's melodramatic events, and to a lesser extent Hatshepsut's self-proclaimed pharoah rule.

Are there any books on Queen Tiye? And I mean books specifically focusing on her (her name as the title would be helpful Smile ).



Hi Neryli, welcome to Egyptian Dreams.

Your comment: "3) Progenitor of monotheism"

I was aware of the AIII (potential) influence on Atenism. I know of Tiye's boat "the Aten gleams" and of the pleasure lake. I was unaware that Tiye
was a potential originator of monotheism. Can anyone explain to me how we know this. For example, do we have any archaeological evidence of this influence?

It would be interesting to know a bit more if anyone can help here.

Stuart
_________________
Beloved of Hathor, Chief of Thebes, Not the Messiah just a Very Naughty Boy!

http://styler78hatshepsutproject.blogspot.com/

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Sothis
Priest
Priest


Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 659

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

She certainly appears to be at least tolerant towards the Aten-religion, as she is portrayed at Amarna under the rays of the Aten and her funerary shrine from KV55 depicts her with the Aten and Akhenaten.

But if she embraced this religion out of conviction or for political reasons is not so clear.

Not sure if she initiated the Aten-religion. One could say that she is associated with a solar-deitiy as she is shown in the guise of a sphinx and with the crown containing the solar disc, so she could have emphasized the importance of the sun (disc) just as her husband did.

A simple question on my part: as it is generally said that evidence of Amenhotp IV prior to his accession is scarce, do we actually have an inscription mentioning him as AIII`s and Tiye`s son?
I can`t remember having seen such an inscription.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Robson
Priest
Priest


Joined: 08 Jun 2006
Posts: 996
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sothis wrote:

But if she embraced this religion out of conviction or for political reasons is not so clear.


I don't think that what we call "religion" and "politics" were separated realms in the Ancient Times.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Styler78
Priest
Priest


Joined: 05 Oct 2009
Posts: 974
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sothis wrote:
She certainly appears to be at least tolerant towards the Aten-religion, as she is portrayed at Amarna under the rays of the Aten and her funerary shrine from KV55 depicts her with the Aten and Akhenaten.

But if she embraced this religion out of conviction or for political reasons is not so clear.

Not sure if she initiated the Aten-religion. One could say that she is associated with a solar-deitiy as she is shown in the guise of a sphinx and with the crown containing the solar disc, so she could have emphasized the importance of the sun (disc) just as her husband did.

A simple question on my part: as it is generally said that evidence of Amenhotp IV prior to his accession is scarce, do we actually have an inscription mentioning him as AIII`s and Tiye`s son?
I can`t remember having seen such an inscription.


Very interesting. Thank you Sothis,

Stuart
_________________
Beloved of Hathor, Chief of Thebes, Not the Messiah just a Very Naughty Boy!

http://styler78hatshepsutproject.blogspot.com/

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
anneke
Queen of Egypt
Queen of Egypt


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 9305

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a banquet scene in the Amarna tomb of Huya (Tiye's steward) and in it Tiye is said to be the king's mother. I think the word for mother is spelled out instead of using the vulture glyph for the goddess Mut.
Tiye is shown with the horned disk and double plumes associated with Hathor. As such she is a bit more closely related to Re than to Aten.
Similarly in her temple at Sedeinga she is revered as the eye of Re, so it seems she is very much associated with the sungod Re and a bit less with Aten.

I have seen no evidence at all that Tiye was the driving force behind the Aten worship. That seems to go back to Amenhotep III more so than his wife. It has been proposed that when Amenhotep III was deified, he became the Aten. (I think by Hornung?)

Also note that as the daughter of Yuya, Tiye grew up as the daughter of the High Priest of Min. Her brother was high priest of Ra in Thebes. So the family was well steeped in the old religion.
It's of course possible she "rebelled" and turned against the old gods, but as I have said above I have seen no evidence that would point to Tiye being a driving force behind that movement.
_________________
Math and Art: http://mathematicsaroundus.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Neryli
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 08 Nov 2010
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: Queen Tiye Reply with quote

Styler78 wrote:
Neryli wrote:
In my five years of research for personal reasons, I have never come across a book dedicated to arguably the most influential women of the so-called Eighteenth Dynasty. Her small biography appears on a few zealous ancient Egyptian websites as some sort of intermediary between Amenhotep III and Akhenaten. Her marriage to one of the most prosperous pharoahs of the New Kingdom and her birth to the so-called 'Heretic King' leaves her qualities in the shadows.

Though records differ, a few historians agree with the following information that she:

1) Married Amenhotep III
2) Mother of Akhenaten
3) Progenitor of monotheism (which possibly inspired Judaism, Christianity, Islam )
4) Held official status in court affairs
5) Gave birth to five or six children
6) Was of non-royal birth (possibly coming from a noble family)
7) Had temples and a lake built in her name

And the list goes on...

Like so many of these queens, she is overshadowed by Nefertiti's bust, Cleopatra's melodramatic events, and to a lesser extent Hatshepsut's self-proclaimed pharoah rule.

Are there any books on Queen Tiye? And I mean books specifically focusing on her (her name as the title would be helpful Smile ).



Hi Neryli, welcome to Egyptian Dreams.

Your comment: "3) Progenitor of monotheism"

I was aware of the AIII (potential) influence on Atenism. I know of Tiye's boat "the Aten gleams" and of the pleasure lake. I was unaware that Tiye
was a potential originator of monotheism. Can anyone explain to me how we know this. For example, do we have any archaeological evidence of this influence?

It would be interesting to know a bit more if anyone can help here.

Stuart


Hello Styler. Now, Im sure we can all agree that historical evidence on Egypt (Kemet) is not relatively solid as, lets say, World War I or II. Some historical sources have attributed Tiye to Monotheism because of her high influence in the early stages of Akhanaton's rule. Amenhotep III's auspicious worship of Aten could have inspired Tiye to advise Akhanaton. Of course, the research is not conclusive. I sense a tendency to overlook her political qualities for the more recent and European period of Egypt - the plotemies (sp).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kylejustin
Vizier
Vizier


Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 1231
Location: victoria, australia

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

in doson and hilton it says amenhotep III and tiye had 8 known daughters, but only 5 of their names were known, i think this comes from a relief in a servants tomb (a steward? or tutor?, i can remember the carving) where the registers which named the daughters are missing. im not sure if it represents amenhotep's daughters by tiye, or if they are some of his daughters by lesser wives, dodson certainly claimed they were tiye's.
_________________
heaven won't take me.......hell's afraid i'll take over.....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Styler78
Priest
Priest


Joined: 05 Oct 2009
Posts: 974
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kylejustin wrote:
in doson and hilton it says amenhotep III and tiye had 8 known daughters, but only 5 of their names were known, i think this comes from a relief in a servants tomb (a steward? or tutor?, i can remember the carving) where the registers which named the daughters are missing. im not sure if it represents amenhotep's daughters by tiye, or if they are some of his daughters by lesser wives, dodson certainly claimed they were tiye's.


Does this help at all?:

http://euler.slu.edu/~bart/egyptianhtml/kings%20and%20Queens/Dynasty18.html

Anneke's site
_________________
Beloved of Hathor, Chief of Thebes, Not the Messiah just a Very Naughty Boy!

http://styler78hatshepsutproject.blogspot.com/

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Styler78
Priest
Priest


Joined: 05 Oct 2009
Posts: 974
Location: Bristol, UK

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Queen Tiye Reply with quote

Neryli wrote:
Styler78 wrote:
Neryli wrote:
In my five years of research for personal reasons, I have never come across a book dedicated to arguably the most influential women of the so-called Eighteenth Dynasty. Her small biography appears on a few zealous ancient Egyptian websites as some sort of intermediary between Amenhotep III and Akhenaten. Her marriage to one of the most prosperous pharoahs of the New Kingdom and her birth to the so-called 'Heretic King' leaves her qualities in the shadows.

Though records differ, a few historians agree with the following information that she:

1) Married Amenhotep III
2) Mother of Akhenaten
3) Progenitor of monotheism (which possibly inspired Judaism, Christianity, Islam )
4) Held official status in court affairs
5) Gave birth to five or six children
6) Was of non-royal birth (possibly coming from a noble family)
7) Had temples and a lake built in her name

And the list goes on...

Like so many of these queens, she is overshadowed by Nefertiti's bust, Cleopatra's melodramatic events, and to a lesser extent Hatshepsut's self-proclaimed pharoah rule.

Are there any books on Queen Tiye? And I mean books specifically focusing on her (her name as the title would be helpful Smile ).



Hi Neryli, welcome to Egyptian Dreams.

Your comment: "3) Progenitor of monotheism"

I was aware of the AIII (potential) influence on Atenism. I know of Tiye's boat "the Aten gleams" and of the pleasure lake. I was unaware that Tiye
was a potential originator of monotheism. Can anyone explain to me how we know this. For example, do we have any archaeological evidence of this influence?

It would be interesting to know a bit more if anyone can help here.

Stuart


Hello Styler. Now, Im sure we can all agree that historical evidence on Egypt (Kemet) is not relatively solid as, lets say, World War I or II. Some historical sources have attributed Tiye to Monotheism because of her high influence in the early stages of Akhanaton's rule. Amenhotep III's auspicious worship of Aten could have inspired Tiye to advise Akhanaton. Of course, the research is not conclusive. I sense a tendency to overlook her political qualities for the more recent and European period of Egypt - the plotemies (sp).


Thanks for the explanation, Neryli. Clarification is always good.

Stuart Wink
_________________
Beloved of Hathor, Chief of Thebes, Not the Messiah just a Very Naughty Boy!

http://styler78hatshepsutproject.blogspot.com/

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
anneke
Queen of Egypt
Queen of Egypt


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 9305

PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I sense a tendency to overlook her political qualities for the more recent and European period of Egypt - the plotemies (sp).

I must admit that I do not understand that sentence...

I think Tiye's memory is overshadowed by Queens such as Hatshepsut and Nefertiti. One of which predates her and one postdates her (by a little bit).
Those two royal women from the 18th dynasty - and to some extent Ahmose Nefertari - have received much more attention. Maybe because they are also much better represented in the monuments. Hatshepsut is represented by Deir el-Bahari and two tombs as well as being a ruler in her own right.
Similarly Nefertiti has left many more representations in the temples, tombs and palaces, not to mention boundary stela. And there is the theory there as well that she may have ruled independently.

With that in mind it is a lot easier to actually fill an entire book and what is more important in publishing: make it appealing for the lay public.

Tiye is known from some scarabs in the early part of Amenhotep's reign, but then there is very little known about her between say year 10 and 30. That's a rather large gap. She shows up in the hebsed festivals, but always one step behind her husband. Tiye hasn't really left the same kind of archaeological record to work with I think.

Don't get me wrong, I think she's very fascinating and I wish someone would research her life in more depth. I can see why other women are "easier marks" for authors out there. And it's not just more recent and Ptolemaic rulers such as Cleopatra for instance.
_________________
Math and Art: http://mathematicsaroundus.blogspot.com/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sothis
Priest
Priest


Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 659

PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kylejustin wrote:
in doson and hilton it says amenhotep III and tiye had 8 known daughters, but only 5 of their names were known, i think this comes from a relief in a servants tomb (a steward? or tutor?, i can remember the carving) where the registers which named the daughters are missing. im not sure if it represents amenhotep's daughters by tiye, or if they are some of his daughters by lesser wives, dodson certainly claimed they were tiye's.


I think the depiction you`re mentioning is in the tomb of Kheruef and depicts eight young ladies pouring libations before the royal couple on the occasion of the first (?) sed-festival.

I`ve just come over Cyril Aldred`s book "Akhenaten" in which he claims (without giving any further reasons) that they are Asiatic princesses who have come to attend the festival.
Although it makes me wonder how foreigners were allowed or even asked to actually take part in the rituals.

But it seems that there is no inscription around naming them as daughters of AIII and Tiye or of AIII by other wives.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Pharaohs and Queens All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next
Page 1 of 8

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group