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David Roberts
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Styler78
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:18 am    Post subject: David Roberts Reply with quote

David Roberts (24 October 1796 – 25 November 1864), an artist and inspiration for many.

I have been inspired by David Roberts ever since being introduced to his work in 2008. Having seen his work up close i can say that some of the books/ articles do not give his work justice.

After a discussion on a seperate thread, the following link was found:

http://www.museum-tours.com/museum/roberts/roberts0.htm

This is the most comprehensive site that i have found so far and includes many pictures that are not featured in the book David Roberts, A Journey to Egypt, which can be found here:

http://www.amazon.com/Journey-Egypt-David-Roberts/dp/8880291106/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1288178053&sr=1-6

If Davis Roberts is new to you, enjoy. If not- there is still something for everyone. Bare in mind that it was the 1800s and many of the sites we see today were covered by sand and in need of some T.L.C.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gulp did you see the price? $154 I paid 45LE when it was just over 11LE to the £ Shocked

A lovely book though Smile I still cannot imagine the Colossi surrounded by deep water no matter how many times I see it.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hekat wrote:
Gulp did you see the price? $154 I paid 45LE when it was just over 11LE to the £ Shocked

A lovely book though Smile I still cannot imagine the Colossi surrounded by deep water no matter how many times I see it.


The price is indeed high.

I agree with the Colossi image. Seeing it today, the sugar cane fields have almost completely taken over the surrounding area.. Its a lovely painting though.
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Toth
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Styler78 wrote:
Hekat wrote:
Gulp did you see the price? $154 I paid 45LE when it was just over 11LE to the £ Shocked

A lovely book though Smile I still cannot imagine the Colossi surrounded by deep water no matter how many times I see it.


The price is indeed high.

I agree with the Colossi image. Seeing it today, the sugar cane fields have almost completely taken over the surrounding area.. Its a lovely painting though.


RE: water, dehydration projects perhaps? or the overall water level is lower?

Toth / Richard
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toth wrote:
Styler78 wrote:
Hekat wrote:
Gulp did you see the price? $154 I paid 45LE when it was just over 11LE to the £ Shocked

A lovely book though Smile I still cannot imagine the Colossi surrounded by deep water no matter how many times I see it.


The price is indeed high.

I agree with the Colossi image. Seeing it today, the sugar cane fields have almost completely taken over the surrounding area.. Its a lovely painting though.


RE: water, dehydration projects perhaps? or the overall water level is lower?

Toth / Richard


Money made through farming? Just an idea

Idea
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Styler78 wrote:
Toth wrote:
Styler78 wrote:
Hekat wrote:
Gulp did you see the price? $154 I paid 45LE when it was just over 11LE to the £ Shocked

A lovely book though Smile I still cannot imagine the Colossi surrounded by deep water no matter how many times I see it.


The price is indeed high.

I agree with the Colossi image. Seeing it today, the sugar cane fields have almost completely taken over the surrounding area.. Its a lovely painting though.


RE: water, dehydration projects perhaps? or the overall water level is lower?

Toth / Richard


Money made through farming? Just an idea

Idea


Could be, it is close to 100 Years since Robert visited Egypt, so, a lot of thing could have caused this (Lake Nasser?)

Toth / Richard
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

David Roberts must have painted that picture during the Summer. We have to remember that at that time there were no dams at Aswan and the Nile flooded the land each year at that time as it had always done. This innundation is what gave fresh silt to the land and new life for the autumn growing season.
It is only since the High dam was completed in the 60's that the annual flood ceased and the levels are now artificially controlled.

The water level is now controlled and the banks do not overflow.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Priest of Hekat wrote:
David Roberts must have painted that picture during the Summer. We have to remember that at that time there were no dams at Aswan and the Nile flooded the land each year at that time as it had always done. This innundation is what gave fresh silt to the land and new life for the autumn growing season.
It is only since the High dam was completed in the 60's that the annual flood ceased and the levels are now artificially controlled.

The water level is now controlled and the banks do not overflow.


Yes, that would explain it, I remember having seen pictures of the colossi surrounded by water, pictures taken before the construction of the Aswan Dam.

Roberts painted the colossi also surrounded by water, I’ve a second book of him, Voyages dans l’Egypte des Pharaons” (p 28-29)

Which strikes me as odd, it would mean Amenhotep III had his temple build to close to the Nile. Or they build a dam around the compound, now gone, like they did at Karnak. Recently traces of a dam protecting Karnak from the annual flooding have been found back.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ranoferhotep wrote:
Styler78 wrote:
I am going to request a thread split- as the Dam discussion is taking over a bit. I believe it (Karnak Dam/ Wall) deserves its own space. I hope you guys don't mind this, but i will be adding to the David Roberts thread in the next few days,

Smile


That is a good idea Stuart. Looking forward to your add about David Roberts

Moderator's note: See http://forum.egyptiandreams.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=5339 for the wall and dam discussion.


Thank you Ranoferhotep.

The next sight which i would like to discuss is Luxor Temple:

http://www.museum-tours.com/museum/roberts/wall06/033l.jpg

Here we see a familiar site- the single Obelisk. This seems to have been removed (to France?) before David's visit. What i wish to discuss is the buildings to the right of the picture.

Apart from reminding me of going to the beach as a child and building sandcastles (which looked very similar) - it is the nature of these buildings.

They are described as "mud houses" in a Journey in Egypt. They have pigeon vases on the rooftops. The mud- house description. Is that what these buildings are? Is this how the houses in Luxor looked in general?

I appreciate that this painting is quite some time after the Ancient Egyptians, but i have no idea what accommodation in Luxor would have looked like after the fall of the AE civilization.

Does anyone have any information to offer?

Thanks

Stuart
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Styler78 wrote:
Ranoferhotep wrote:
Styler78 wrote:
I am going to request a thread split- as the Dam discussion is taking over a bit. I believe it (Karnak Dam/ Wall) deserves its own space. I hope you guys don't mind this, but i will be adding to the David Roberts thread in the next few days,

Smile


That is a good idea Stuart. Looking forward to your add about David Roberts


Thank you Ranoferhotep.

The next sight which i would like to discuss is Luxor Temple:

http://www.museum-tours.com/museum/roberts/wall06/033l.jpg

Here we see a familiar site- the single Obelisk. This seems to have been removed (to France?) before David's visit. What i wish to discuss is the buildings to the right of the picture.

Apart from reminding me of going to the beach as a child and building sandcastles (which looked very similar) - it is the nature of these buildings.

They are described as "mud houses" in a Journey in Egypt. They have pigeon vases on the rooftops. The mud- house description. Is that what these buildings are? Is this how the houses in Luxor looked in general?

I appreciate that this painting is quite some time after the Ancient Egyptians, but i have no idea what accommodation in Luxor would have looked like after the fall of the AE civilization.

Does anyone have any information to offer?

Thanks

Stuart


Has building in Egypt changed so much that you would question it? Also, I think that the texts were edited in our time (I have seen remarks about the the Aswan dam and other remarks going in both directions in time Wink

Toth
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toth:
Quote:
Has building in Egypt changed so much that you would question it?


I do not know enough to be able to question it. My first thought was that houses in AE would not look like those in the picture i have used.

I was thinking Deir el Medina:

http://www.egiptologia.com/mujer-en-el-antiguo-egipto/364-las-viviendas-egipcias-la-cocina.html (second picture).

This would look very different from the mud houses depicted outside Luxor Temple.

Stuart
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toth wrote:
Styler78 wrote:
Ranoferhotep wrote:
Styler78 wrote:
I am going to request a thread split- as the Dam discussion is taking over a bit. I believe it (Karnak Dam/ Wall) deserves its own space. I hope you guys don't mind this, but i will be adding to the David Roberts thread in the next few days,

Smile


That is a good idea Stuart. Looking forward to your add about David Roberts


Thank you Ranoferhotep.

The next sight which i would like to discuss is Luxor Temple:

http://www.museum-tours.com/museum/roberts/wall06/033l.jpg

Here we see a familiar site- the single Obelisk. This seems to have been removed (to France?) before David's visit. What i wish to discuss is the buildings to the right of the picture.

Apart from reminding me of going to the beach as a child and building sandcastles (which looked very similar) - it is the nature of these buildings.

They are described as "mud houses" in a Journey in Egypt. They have pigeon vases on the rooftops. The mud- house description. Is that what these buildings are? Is this how the houses in Luxor looked in general?

I appreciate that this painting is quite some time after the Ancient Egyptians, but i have no idea what accommodation in Luxor would have looked like after the fall of the AE civilization.

Does anyone have any information to offer?

Thanks

Stuart


Has building in Egypt changed so much that you would question it? Also, I think that the texts were edited in our time (I have seen remarks about the the Aswan dam and other remarks going in both directions in time Wink

Toth


On which part of the drawing you quoted do rely for this image of an AE-home? Careful, a large mart of the foreground is a pylon and perhaps temple ruins, the city is more in the background.

Toth
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Stuart, now that is challenging, could give an answer now, but want to do some research first. I will come back on this. (It’s 1 am here in Belgium now and also way past my bedtime)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ranoferhotep wrote:
Hi Stuart, now that is challenging, could give an answer now, but want to do some research first. I will come back on this. (It’s 1 am here in Belgium now and also way past my bedtime)

1:30 in The Netherlands, and I am off to bed. Good Night to you all!

Richard, aka
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some interesting thoughts.
I do wonder about the accuracy of some of Roberts paintings....some "artistic licence" used to remove things that spoil the composition. Have a look at this Wiki page about the Abu Haggag mosque which sits right on top of the temple. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Haggag_Mosque
It has been there in one form or another since the 11th Century and the mineret should have been clearly seen in the angle that he selected for his painting. The buildings in the foreground were not a part of the temple as they have not been preserved today.
Certainly the style of mud brick or adobe dwellings shown are common in this part of Egypt and can still be seen in some outlying villages today. This type of building material tends to lead to a certain design for structural strength with the slightly inward sloping walls. Houses, storage facilities etc all tend to follow this pattern but differ in size. The vaulted arch style seen in the temple storage magazines dissapeared with the loss of culture during the middle ages in Egypt but were kept alive by the Bishareen (Nubian) builders down in southern Egypt and Sudan. This design was brought back to Egypt in the middle of the last century by Hassan Fathy and is now incorporated in stylish building today.
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