Go to the Egyptian Dreams shop
Egyptian Dreams
Ancient Egypt Discussion Board
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Ahas Abydos Label

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Pre-dynastic Egypt
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Harsomtis
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 22 Dec 2010
Posts: 34
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:13 pm    Post subject: Ahas Abydos Label Reply with quote

Hallo,

can someone help me to understand this label of King Aha? see http://xoomer.virgilio.it/francescoraf/hesyra/labels/xxaha3.htm

The first picture should show a temple of Neith (realy? Not the palace of his Mother Neithhotep?) - see http://rigefalksegypt.se/label.gif

Next picture: A stork on a throne? Another king? It was not his father, not his son. His grandfather of dynasty 0? A god?

Next picture: Two suns? A bird - the stork from above, walking?

Can anybody help with some interpretations?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 3609
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: Ahas Abydos Label Reply with quote

Harsomtis wrote:
... can someone help me to understand this label of King Aha? see http://xoomer.virgilio.it/francescoraf/hesyra/labels/xxaha3.htm ...

Alejandro Jiménez Serrano : Royal Festivals in the Late Predynastic Period and the First Dynasty. - Oxford : Archaeopress, 2002. - ISBN : 1-8417-1455-0. - VIII, 116 p., ill., maps. - British Archaeological Reports - BAR - International Series - 1076.

On pages 57 - 61 he gives a short overview on the different interpretations of this label (page 58 gives the same picture as the link, so I omitted here) :




Greetings, Lutz.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Harsomtis
Citizen
Citizen


Joined: 22 Dec 2010
Posts: 34
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 1:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Ahas Abydos Label Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:
he gives a short overview on the different interpretations of this label (page 58 gives the same picture as the link, so I omitted here


First of all: Lutz, you are the best! Very Happy

So there are realy readable hierogylphs on it... I thought (Dreyer?), that the first writing was more simple and just for administration. Wow...

I still have not understood the stork in the second row Sad

So there are more labels showing the same event... but the last line is different... why? Could it be a contract? The last symbol, the lion, meaning something like "for ever"? (The king will give us on every festival celebreting this event bread and oil and...? Maybe, because, some special people will come with ships again?) What could be the meaning of the last symbol (lion?)? The signs for 100 is clearly readable; also other signs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 3609
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 3:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Ahas Abydos Label Reply with quote

Harsomtis wrote:
... I thought (Dreyer?), that the first writing was more simple and just for administration. Wow...

Dreyer's statement refers to the label - finds from tomb U-j. They are currently considered the oldest characters of mankind. See

Günter Dreyer [Mit Beitr.v. Ulrich Hartung, u.a.] : Umm el-Qaab 1 - Das prädynastische Königsgrab U-j und seine frühen Schriftzeugnisse. - Mainz : von Zabern, 1998. - ISBN : 3-8053-2486-3. - ix, 195 p., 47 pl., ill., maps. - Archäologische Veröffentlichungen - AV - 86

Harsomtis wrote:
... I still have not understood the stork in the second row ...

The bird names / identyfies the temple (on which he stands) / the town. Whether it is an ibis or stork is probably not really clear. Even if the bird itself is the deity or he is just representating the god is not clear.

Harsomtis wrote:
... So there are more labels showing the same event... but the last line is different... why? ...

The labels were used to identify certain goods and products which were deposited as tomb goods in vessels or boxes in the royal tomb. As I understand it, the last line specifying the content, possibly even the origin, of the vessel or box.

Greetings, Lutz.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Lutz
Pharaoh
Pharaoh


Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 3609
Location: Berlin, Germany

PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:51 am    Post subject: Re: Ahas Abydos Label Reply with quote

Lutz wrote:
Harsomtis wrote:
... So there are more labels showing the same event... but the last line is different... why? ...

The labels were used to identify certain goods and products which were deposited as tomb goods in vessels or boxes in the royal tomb. As I understand it, the last line specifying the content, possibly even the origin, of the vessel or box.

In addition: The events on the labels stay for a particular year of the reign (see Palermo Stone). It is the year in which the product (last line) was supplied / manufactured.

Lutz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Aset
Priest
Priest


Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Posts: 745
Location: Austria

PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The last symbol, the lion, meaning something like "for ever"? ... What could be the meaning of the last symbol (lion?)?
The 'lion' is the first symbol of the last line.
It's the sign F4, logogram / phonogram HA.t - forepart; beginning; foremost; best (Wb 3, 19.2-22.3) (Source: TLA)
e.g. best bread / incence / oil / meat / wine / linen etc.

Hannig, p. 505 (12): das Beste (in Zusammenhang mit Konsumgütern)

Aset
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Egyptian Dreams Forum Index -> Pre-dynastic Egypt All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group