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Statue: who is it?
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Styler78
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a statue that both interests me an intrigues me:


Hatshepsut. I am not aware of any other statue which shows Hatshepsut in this way. Although i may come accross one in the future, this stands out to me.

Firstly, breasts.

I am only 6 months into studying Hatshepsut (an error prone time, you'll understand) and believe this statue to come from the time of the co-regency between Hatshepsut and Thutmose III. I suggest this as she is wearing the Nemes, with Uraeus and the Crook and Flail but the showing/ inclusion of breasts suggest that she has not declared herself (or been declared) Pharaoh which was a time when she started to appear male in statues and depictions. If i am correct than this could be a relatively early Hatshepsut statue.

Secondly, I have seen Hatshepsut many times. I don't often see her looking so glum. Maybe there is a reason for this.

Lastly, the statue is in excellent condition. Not a statue then (you would imagine) from Deir el Bahri. These were found (for the most part) very fragmented to say the least.

Either way - i am very fond of this statue and share it with you all. Very Happy

Stuart
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Styler78 wrote:
Here's a statue that both interests me an intrigues me:


Hatshepsut. I am not aware of any other statue which shows Hatshepsut in this way. Although i may come accross one in the future, this stands out to me.


I'm fairly certain that this is a statue of Akhenaten.
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Hathorhotep
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My dear Anne, look at breasts? Anne, did you also drink wodka this weekend?
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hathorhotep wrote:
My dear Anne, look at breasts? Anne, did you also drink wodka this weekend?


I did notice the breasts, but that statue is still attributed to Akhenaten.
And no I did not drink any vodka. Have been way to busy grading papers and helping out friends in need.
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Hathorhotep
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that Akhenaten is depicted sometimes as a woman, but this also can be Hatshepsut, his aunt. Strange things happened to Thutmoside family!

The whole dynasty shows us some new sources of power and power of woman on the thrones - Ahmose-Nefertari, Hatshepsut, Isis, Nefertiti, Meritaton, Ankhsenamon and Mutbrenet, Nefertiti's sister.
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anneke
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The statue shows so many characteristics from the Amarna period that I don't think it can date to the time of Hatshepsut and Tuthmosis III. The art style from that time portrayed royalty with rather distinct round faces.
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Robson
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and two other things that points out to the Amarnian style: wrinkles and no beard

Is also curious the Tiye-like mouth. Maybe it was done when the queen-mother still shared the power.
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Ranoferhotep
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting statue, do you have any knowledge were it was found? Maybe that could give a clue…
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Osiris II
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this is the statue that I had mentioned in a previous posting.
Denfinately Amarna-type.
The actual person?
Because of the partial cartouch it contains, it is most oftenly referred to either Akhenaton, Smenkhara and (occasionaly) Tutankhamen.
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kevininabydos
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks very Amarna in style, but it screams "fake" to me. Sorry.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Osiris II wrote:
... Denfinately Amarna-type. ... most oftenly referred to either Akhenaton, Smenkhara and (occasionaly) Tutankhamen.

One part of a seated double statue of Akhenaten in yellow steatite, originally united with Nefertiti (of which only the left arm remained at his hip). The king could be represented in the barren style of his later years. To look at you have to go to the " Louvre " in Paris.

Greetings, Lutz.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kevininabydos wrote:
It looks very Amarna in style, but it screams "fake" to me. Sorry.

Very unlikely, the modern history of this piece is well documented. It was the first object identified as an image of Pharaoh Akhenaton ever found. It was acquired by the Louvre from the collection of Henry Salt, early 19th century.

Greetings, Lutz.
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Lutz
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hathorhotep wrote:
I know that Akhenaten is depicted sometimes as a woman, ...

Examples / evidence please.

Hathorhotep wrote:
... but this also can be Hatshepsut, his aunt. Strange things happened to Thutmoside family! ...

"Strange things" seem more likely to act in your head, if you call Hatschepsut an aunt of Akhenaten ...

Lutz
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Granite
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although the provenance of this piece is unknown, it has clearly Amarnan features - including man-boobs.
It is definitely a pharaoh, part of a dyad, and the other figure is deemed to have been female - either his wife or his mother. It has always been attributed to Akhenaten, but does not look exactly like him: I have always had a sneaking feeling it could be (his younger brother) Smenkhkare, as it quite resembles the face on Tutankhamen's second coffin.
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Styler78
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well- i can only agree in the Amarna appearance. I came across this statue whilst trying to find Hatshepsut statues for my blog. This has been labelled as Hatshepsut by a few sites i have been to.

Without the appearance of a cartouche, provinence, description- i "went with" the Hatshepsut label. thank goodness for me not posting this as Hatshapsut on my blog.....Either way it takes threads/ conversations like this to gather information.

Robson- of course you were right to point to the non-beard. I just thought that being in the co-regency period of Hatshepsut- that would explain it. I now know different.

KevininAbydos- can you give suggestions as to why you believe this to be a fake? If not a fake- there will of course be documentation showing the history of this artifact (see Lutz's comments). I am interested in your comment.

This is a great statue- even though i understand that my initial information was incorrect. I am thankful for all the information supplied thus far. I think the best thing for me to do if i come accros another statue which seems to have been mislabelled- i will post them on this thread to gather all your comments.

Out of interest- does anyone know why the crook and flail are held only in one hand?

Also the nipples on this statue- i have seen a latrge number of statues that seem to have a flower motif instead of nipples. Is it common to have breasts and nipples appearing "natural" in the Amarna period?......

Thanks,

Stuart Wink
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