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Why Did They Destroy Everything?
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Calypsos
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:39 pm    Post subject: Why Did They Destroy Everything? Reply with quote

I have to wonder is the total motivation of the Christians to tear up and destroy monuments and writings was to destroy the evil 'devil' inspired things?

One could imagine that maybe there was proof within all they destroyed that humanity may have destroyed it's self....over and over again. And not small time annihilation but some real massive extinction level destruction.

I mean after all, where are the kind of records you would expect out of great civilizations. There isn't. The Alexandrian Library wasn't the only repository of knowledge. No one in their right mind would keep every thing in one spot to take a chance on damaging it. Also there couldn't have just been a few old foolish old men passing themselves off as historians.


Just a random thought. What do you think?
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Toth
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Why Did They Destroy Everything? Reply with quote

Calypsos wrote:
I have to wonder is the total motivation of the Christians to tear up and destroy monuments and writings was to destroy the evil 'devil' inspired things?

One could imagine that maybe there was proof within all they destroyed that humanity may have destroyed it's self....over and over again. And not small time annihilation but some real massive extinction level destruction.

I mean after all, where are the kind of records you would expect out of great civilizations. There isn't. The Alexandrian Library wasn't the only repository of knowledge. No one in their right mind would keep every thing in one spot to take a chance on damaging it. Also there couldn't have just been a few old foolish old men passing themselves off as historians.


Just a random thought. What do you think?


Well, thinking of Akhenaten and Hatshepsut, their monuments were not destroyed by christians, but by contemporary citizens, in Akhenaten's case surely that was fired by the Priests of the old religion, which Akhenaten tried to destroy with his Aton monotheistic religion, In Hatshepsut's case the jury is still out on the verdict if the monuments were destroyed because of het acting as a male pharaoh, or as an act of revenge by by her nephew Tuthmosis III, I am sure Styler78 who has Hatshepsut as a special area of interest...

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anneke
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Part of the problem is that they wrote their records to some extent on perishable materials: papyrus.

That is a major problem right there. Discoveries have been made of archives from the 5th dynasty (Abusir) and 12th dynasty (Kahun), but even there the documents were damaged.

Once in a while they find records on ostraca (potsherds), or they may find a papyrus, but overall a lot has been lost.

I get the impression that the Christians often changed "idolatrous images". Hacked out a nude, superimposed crosses on scenes, etc.
(Kind of like them putting fig leaves on nude statues Smile )
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: Why Did They Destroy Everything? Reply with quote

Calypsos wrote:
I have to wonder is the total motivation of the Christians to tear up and destroy monuments and writings was to destroy the evil 'devil' inspired things?


An understanding of the history of history tells us that it is not unusual for religions to corrupt, demonize and/or usurp those (or that) religions which went before. It is not purely a christian phenomenon

Calypsos wrote:
One could imagine that maybe there was proof within all they destroyed that humanity may have destroyed it's self....over and over again. And not small time annihilation but some real massive extinction level destruction.


And that proof of Man's destruction and 'rebirthing' may yet exist to be rediscovered. On a Universal or Cosmic level we tend to think of 'big bang' as the singular start point, but there are many who would argue that the Universe expands and contracts, and many big bangs have and will occur. Does it really matter if we 'destroy' ourselves, our civilizations or our history periodically?

Calypsos wrote:
I mean after all, where are the kind of records you would expect out of great civilizations. There isn't. The Alexandrian Library wasn't the only repository of knowledge. No one in their right mind would keep every thing in one spot to take a chance on damaging it. Also there couldn't have just been a few old foolish old men passing themselves off as historians.


Where are the records we might expect? - maybe they exist all around us, yet we fail to see the wood for the trees? maybe we look too closely, maybe we look from too far abroad, maybe we simply look in the wrong places?!

Perhaps the records you mention are not in the form we are familiar with; we think of writing and text and architecture and art and music and tape and binary as records. What about light? what about fractal math? what about the vibration of bird sound or the click of the cockroach?

The simple answer to your question "why did they destroy everything?", because it is human nature (in the majority) to destroy that which it fears or which is different. One point to remember is this... those who we might define as they, are in reality us! - we just think we are different

Just passing through, have fun!
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Styler78
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Why Did They Destroy Everything? Reply with quote

Calypsos wrote:
I have to wonder is the total motivation of the Christians to tear up and destroy monuments and writings was to destroy the evil 'devil' inspired things?
One could imagine that maybe there was proof within all they destroyed that humanity may have destroyed it's self....over and over again. And not small time annihilation but some real massive extinction level destruction.

I mean after all, where are the kind of records you would expect out of great civilizations. There isn't. The Alexandrian Library wasn't the only repository of knowledge. No one in their right mind would keep every thing in one spot to take a chance on damaging it. Also there couldn't have just been a few old foolish old men passing themselves off as historians.


Just a random thought. What do you think?


I can only talk about the monuments i have seen in person- or studied in enough detail to have an opinion. What i have seen in the temples of Egypt is the early Christians simply adapted for their own needs. This did mean a slight destructive influence, but nothing like complete destruction. We can all see crosses at Philae, Luxor, etc, etc as a reminder of the early Christian Period.

Certainly the early Christians did not go as far as to destroy EVERYTHING, but they certainly left their mark.

The early Christians may have destroyed writings, but i would suggest that they were only one of a line of people who did the same. Think of the Persians, Hyksos, Turks, etc - all of the above had their part to play in the loss of Egyptian writings/ history. And that's not even considering the Egyptians themselves, who have destroyed monuments, statues and so much more (think Hatshepsut).....then there's the Nile itself- we seem to have lost so much to the riing watrer levels in the Nile Delta.

In summary- the Christians motivation may have been Devil- related, but i guess we have to look at the complete picture, before laying too much blame on one particular group of people.

Today, we still have complete idiots who grafitti and cause destruction in Egypt. The motivation? I couldn't tell you. However, if i could get my hands on them....................................

Happy New Year to all..

Regards,
Stuart
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Calypsos
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
free tinker said" Perhaps the records you mention are not in the form we are familiar with; we think of writing and text and architecture and art and music and tape and binary as records. What about light? what about fractal math? what about the vibration of bird sound or the click of the cockroach?"


Would it be interesting if they evolved into a similar type of record keeping we now are Devolving to. Something that unlike the written word that doesn't even exist without the gadgets we so cling to. What would be conveyed to those a few thousand years down the road when they find bits and pieces of shiny plastic that once had movies and music and writings on it? Nothing, It would just be garbage to them.
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Toth
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calypsos wrote:
Quote:
free tinker said" Perhaps the records you mention are not in the form we are familiar with; we think of writing and text and architecture and art and music and tape and binary as records. What about light? what about fractal math? what about the vibration of bird sound or the click of the cockroach?"


Would it be interesting if they evolved into a similar type of record keeping we now are Devolving to. Something that unlike the written word that doesn't even exist without the gadgets we so cling to. What would be conveyed to those a few thousand years down the road when they find bits and pieces of shiny plastic that once had movies and music and writings on it? Nothing, It would just be garbage to them.


Careful, there are christian group who already accuse contemporary music, painting, etc. as "from the devil". Sure, and I always wonder who told them that this particular work of art is devilish?

Richard
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Calypsos
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toth wrote:
Careful, there are christian group who already accuse contemporary music, painting, etc. as "from the devil". Sure, and I always wonder who told them that this particular work of art is devilish?

Richard


They say it takes one to know one.... Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calypsos wrote:
Toth wrote:
Careful, there are christian group who already accuse contemporary music, painting, etc. as "from the devil". Sure, and I always wonder who told them that this particular work of art is devilish?

Richard


They say it takes one to know one.... Laughing


That is something I should be able to agree unconditionally with Laughing

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I have seen, it seems poor Min has been at the brunt of most Christian defacement. They could have at least put a stocking over it instead.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anup wrote:
From what I have seen, it seems poor Min has been at the brunt of most Christian defacement. They could have at least put a stocking over it instead.


Just as much as they destroyed Min's "indecency", they destroyed you being "just" a jackal, Anup(bis), So, Christians had their "extremist" times too, those were responsible for destroying the reliefs with nudity, the ancient gods, heck even the reliefs of the old Kings and Queens they had to destroy, why? Because they were "pagans"... and they, the Christian were far above that; sure Wink

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toth wrote:
Anup wrote:
From what I have seen, it seems poor Min has been at the brunt of most Christian defacement. They could have at least put a stocking over it instead.


Just as much as they destroyed Min's "indecency", they destroyed you being "just" a jackal, Anup(bis), So, Christians had their "extremist" times too, those were responsible for destroying the reliefs with nudity, the ancient gods, heck even the reliefs of the old Kings and Queens they had to destroy, why? Because they were "pagans"... and they, the Christian were far above that; sure Wink

Richard, aka


I am a Christian m'self, but also a rookie historian. I'd rather history wasn't altered before I got around to reading it. I think we've passed the age of defacing historical monuments now, though from all the things I've read on here about Hawass, I'm beginning to wonder what else is out there.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anup wrote:
I'd rather history wasn't altered before I got around to reading it

Too late! - history is the 'truth' of your own research and understanding; to thine own self be true!

Anup wrote:
I think we've passed the age of defacing historical monuments now...

history and historical 'monument' are re-carved (rewritten) every day, only the free-of-mind have truth opened unto them
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Ranoferhotep
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anup wrote:

Quote:
I think we've passed the age of defacing historical monuments now...


Iím afraid this isnít so. A few years ago Muslim blew up some very beautiful statues of Buddha (I think it was in Afghanistan)

The ancient Khmer temples in Cambodia are still being looted

And the current problems in Egypt donít predict much good. Though I was glad to read that ďstudents formed a human chain to protect the museum of CairoĒ
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ranoferhotep wrote:
Anup wrote:

Quote:
I think we've passed the age of defacing historical monuments now...


Iím afraid this isnít so. A few years ago Muslim blew up some very beautiful statues of Buddha (I think it was in Afghanistan)

The ancient Khmer temples in Cambodia are still being looted

And the current problems in Egypt donít predict much good. Though I was glad to read that ďstudents formed a human chain to protect the museum of CairoĒ


Hopefully Egypt's in a different state in terms of education and culture than Afganistan. For one thing it has more educated population. pre-Taliban Afghanistan, with the exception of a tiny urban elite, was pretty much stuck in the Middle Ages. A comparison with Iraq might be more appropriate. At least the Egyptian army appears to now be protecting the National Museum. That's more than I can say for the American troops which my tax dollars paid for who sat by and let looters strip the National Museum in Baghdad. The current demonstrators appear for the most part to be secular--although--who knows--religious fanatics are everywhere.

Personally as an American, I'd be afraid if some of our Fundamentalist Christian types actually got into power in my country. Already they've cowed many school districts into not teaching evolution.
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